Short Development times with TMY and Rodinal printing of Slavich

Ok so I am working on some film/zone system testing and I am getting some short dev times. I am working with TMY (old type, I got a bunch cheap, this is 4X5 by the way). I am using the instructions provided in the Simmons book on using the view camera. I have been shooting for a while but this is the first time that I have really spent the time I should in testing film.

I established my EI at 320 and am now working on establishing my normal development time. I am printing on Slavich grade 3 for my normal print, developed in formulary 130. So far my best result has been 5 min in Rodinal at 1:50 (developed in a Jobo expert drum on rotating base). This seems a bit shorter than ideal (and I think I could still stand to lower contrast a little) so I would like to extend my development time some if possible. The logical way to do this seems to be to change the dilution to 1:100.

However with the capacity of my drum being about 1000 ml and holding 10 sheets of 4X5 I worry about the developer going far enough as I only have 1 ml or stock for each sheet. Also is there a general rule of thumb about a starting place when changing dilutions? I see when going from 1:25 to 1:50 the times usually double on the massive dev chart so I am thinking I will start with 8 min at 1:100.

Does this sound reasonable? What is the capacity of Rodinal, will 10 sheets with 10 ml of stock work? And finally do you think the reason for my drastically cut dev times has to do with the Slavich paper being more contrasty than others?

I have never had good results with Rodinal dilutions of greater than 1:50 in JOBO Rotary processing. I don't agree with the idea that 5 ml or more of stock Rodinal is a absolute requirement, though ... I've done a fair amount of "stand" development with dilutions of 1:200 - 1:300 solution (1 - 2 ml/ film) with success.

One thing might be possible - slowing the agitation rotation in the processor. I have the idea that "slosh" of the Rodinal needs more time to work with high dilutions.

Any thoughts out there?

I would agree with Ed in principle about the high dilutions in a rotary processor (machine or manual base). You might do better with the 1:100 to do stand or semi-stand.

I think the recommended concentrate is 5ml per 80 square inches. So for 4x5 that would be 1.25ml. The less concentrate, the sooner into your developing cycle it will exhaust and that gets you into a whole different ball game. Rodinal is relatively cheap and if you can cram the solution volume into your tank, don't skimp on the concentrate.

I developed another sheet this morning at 1:100 and we'll see how it looks when I get a chance to print it, I think the contrast is a good bit lower than 5 min at 1:50 was. Unfortunately I am using a simple motor base and can't adjust the speed so I am kinda stuck in that respect. My question regarding the capacity of Rodinal is mostly based on what I had heard was the maximum capacity of the tank (1000ml) but then again I think I put a good deal more than that in there when I was washing the film earlier so I could probably get more in there. The reason I started using Rodinal after starting with D76 was that it was easy to mix a one shot developer that I didn't feel bad about dumping after using it, I have been a little curious about HC-110 recently though....

For inexpensive on shot you may want HC110, Clayton F76 or Edwal FG7. Clayton F76 can used at 1:17.

The 1000ml maximum is for use on a Jobo rotary processor because of strain on the system including the motor. I would test the drum with more liquid, no film, on the motor base you are using to see if it handles the additional weight well.

Paul Howell said:

For inexpensive on shot you may want HC110, Clayton F76 or Edwal FG7. Clayton F76 can used at 1:17.

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Arrrgghhh!!! Dissention, sedition even!!

I'll have to report this to the "Powers That Be" in the Great Secret Society of Rodinal Fanatics!!

Wait a minute - you're not supposed to know about the GSSoRF.

Ignore this post.

If your negs are a bit contrasty printing on a number 3 paper, maybe they would fit a number 2 paper better? If you want a little longer development time, maybe aim for the number 2 paper from the start so a slightly contrastier negative (longer development time) is required?

It seems to me that you are creating your own problem here. A more dilute developer will extend your processing time, and you may get away with it for a batch of 10 "average" negatives. You might run into problems with exhausted developer if your scenes contain a lot of light-colored sand, snow, or other.

You will find the same situation with other developers. HC-110 dilution B will give you short development times in a rotary processor. My time for 4x5 in tray development was about 5 minutes for Tri-X. Dilution H
(dilution B 1:1 with water) might be a better starting point. Here again, you might run into exhaustion problems with 10 sheets of film. I limited my sheets/liter to 6 just to ensure consistency.

Peter Gomena

Take a look on this thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ed Sukach said:

I'll have to report this to the "Powers That Be" in the Great Secret Society of Rodinal Fanatics!!

Wait a minute - you're not supposed to know about the GSSoRF.

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How come I have not been contacted? Is there a report on me for dabbling in pyro?

Uhner said:

Take a look on this thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)




How come I have not been contacted? Is there a report on me for dabbling in pyro?

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Yes.

Well I was thinking it might be a little under developed but after consulting The Negative I think 8 min at 1:100 nailed n+0 development. The light ares were looking a little grey to me, but after looking at the examples in the book I think they are right on. it is a little hard to compare to the book as the printing isn't the best, but the relationships look right to me (it's even harder to compare the low tones). I have to say I am pretty happy with the negatives too, sharp with good contrast and definition and the grain isn't too bad either (granted this is 4X5 and I am still a little green in the darkroom so take this with a grain of salt).