Shooting issue with my new Bronica ETRS

Cmgsk · Jun 1, 2021

Hello guys!
I'm new to the medium format cameras, but I know how they work. A week ago I decided to treat myself and buy a cheap good looking condition Bronica ETRS, but when I started looking everything was fine, I noticed two issues.
First one is that even though new battery works just fine, as the built-in led tells me, lens shutter seems to fire only 1/500. I assumed this is some kind of issue with the contacts or the lens, but as for the second problem is something I couldnt find anyone in the web talking about... and which concerns me the most...

The second shutter, what I might mistakenly call curtain (the angled thin black plate behind the mirror) is stucked down. When I shoot, it seems to want to go up, and by gently pushing it, it seems to be loose up to a point where it's stuck (2-3mm), until you cock the shutter again and gets firmly attached to the bottom of the body.

Is this something I might be able to fix at home? Could it be somehow related with the shutter issue? If not, how much you guess could it cost to get it fixed?

Ps. For the record, I tried with the 120 chasis on, out, lens on, out, with, without black slide, with and without multiexposure, just to be sure all mechanisms were working fine, which seems so to me. The only thing didn't try is shooting some actual film since seemed kinda wasteful to me.

wiltw · Jun 1, 2021

If the shutter fires only at 1/500 on the ETRS, either the battery is dead, or there is some issue in the electronic timing circuitry in the body, or the contacts on body/lens (or the contacts where the prism mounts is shorted by bypass the in-body time even when there is no metering prism mounted)
The red light in the viewfinder shows ONLY when the shutter CLOSES...it is no indication of shutter timing circuitry issue.
As for the stuck light baffle behind the reflex mirror...(making sure first that lens and body are cocked) remove the lens and remove the film back. The shutter release can be pressed, and the reflex mirror should swing up, and if the baffle does not go up you should be able to push gently on the baffle to get it to move without worry about any mechanical mechanism in the body HOLDING the baffle in place!
It may simply be the need for cleaning and lubrication so the baffle moves freely. One needs to be very careful, after eleaning, in selection of lubricant for any DIY...in many cases NO VISIBLE LUBRICANT to spread or splatter is advised.
With lens and back both off, it should be possible to actuate all the mechanisms in the body freely

Cmgsk · Jun 1, 2021

wiltw said:
If the shutter fires only at 1/500 on the ETRS, either the battery is dead, or there is some issue in the electronic timing circuitry in the body, or the contacts on body/lens (or the contacts where the prism mounts is shorted by bypass the in-body time even when there is no metering prism mounted)

The red light in the viewfinder shows ONLY when the shutter CLOSES...it is no indication of shutter timing circuitry issue.

As for the stuck light baffle behind the reflex mirror...(making sure first that lens and body are cocked) remove the lens and remove the film back. The shutter release can be pressed, and the reflex mirror should swing up, and if the baffle does not go up you should be able to push gently on the baffle to get it to move without worry about any mechanical mechanism in the body HOLDING the baffle in place!
It may simply be the need for cleaning and lubrication so the baffle moves freely. One needs to be very careful, after eleaning, in selection of lubricant for any DIY...in many cases NO VISIBLE LUBRICANT to spread or splatter is advised.
With lens and back both off, it should be possible to actuate all the mechanisms in the body freely

Thanks for the answer! First, I meant that when i press the battery check indicator, the led turns on, so battery works fine, and contacts have no corrossion whatsoever, so it seems to me some kind of issue in the electronic shutter mechanism, but something i kinda figured myself based on the info i've read online.

As for the second issue, i've tried doing that and gently pushing, but seems like after that 3mm-ish gap, the baffle (thanks for the term hehe) does not move any further, i've tried to check through the hole from the lens if there's any external element preventing it from moving, but it doesnt seem so to me, yet im kinda affraid of pushing harder and actually snap it. Anyways i'm going to try pushing slightly harder just in case its some corrosion in the movement mechanism i can gently force to surpass, but based on the previous trys i don't think that will do hahaha.

wiltw · Jun 1, 2021

You could try to actuate each of the contacts at the top of the body (for metering prism) as they are important when a metering prism is mounted, to either use the prism setting or the body setting based upon the prism switch (A vs M).
Do you have another lens to try, to eliminate the possibility there is an internal wire break within the lens?

So you have confirmed that the mirror is up (by looking thru the lens throat), while the baffle seems stuck in the down position?

Cmgsk · Jun 1, 2021

wiltw said:
You could try to actuate each of the contacts at the top of the body (for metering prism) as they are important when a metering prism is mounted, to either use the prism setting or the body setting based upon the prism switch (A vs M).
Do you have another lens to try, to eliminate the possibility there is an internal wire break within the lens?

So you have confirmed that the mirror is up (by looking thru the lens throat), while the baffle seems stuck in the down position?

I do have a waist level finder, should i worry anyways about those contacts at the top? I do not have another lens, i was wondering about if some photographic shop could let me try some for free just to eliminate that possibility... i dont think i can fix that myself.

and yes, i've confirmed that mirror works as intended, but not the baffle, which remains shut (although slightly loose) once the mirror has gone up.

wiltw · Jun 1, 2021

If you send PM with your email address, I can provide Bronica service manual PDF. On page 16 of 60, and page 17 of 60 (PDF pages) the baffle and the mechanism is discussed.

grat · Jun 1, 2021

Cmgsk said:
Thanks for the answer! First, I meant that when i press the battery check indicator, the led turns on, so battery works fine, and contacts have no corrossion whatsoever, so it seems to me some kind of issue in the electronic shutter mechanism, but something i kinda figured myself based on the info i've read online.

There is a pin, I believe, at the top left of the ground glass, that tells the camera whether or not the AE prism finder is installed-- if it is, it ignores the knob on the side, and uses the circuit from the prism finder to set the timing. No finder, no timing, default of 1/500th. That contact, inside the camera, can need adjustment and cleaning.

Fortunately for you, the service manual for the ETRS is online: https://learncamerarepair.com/productlist.php?category=2&secondary=33

Pity the same can't be said for the SQ-A.

Cmgsk · Jun 1, 2021

wiltw said:
If you send PM with your email address, I can provide Bronica service manual PDF. On page 16 of 60, and page 17 of 60 (PDF pages) the baffle and the mechanism is discussed.

Welp!!! Seems like i fixed it!

I downloaded it like two days ago and now i've check it again since didnt recognize that part. I used some canned air in the joints of the baffle and gently but firmely pushed it from the back hole, supporting it with the index from my other hand through the lens hole, and it got unstucked! the mechanism now pushes it all the way up, and works fine (or seems like to) when cocking the shutter and shooting. Have to mention though, that surprisingly the baffle issue was somehow related to the shutter one, since now all speeds matches the setting (eyeballed it, but definetely not 1/500ing at 8s setting).

Thank you very much wiltw for your advice and your help! =D

Edit:

grat said:
There is a pin, I believe, at the top left of the ground glass, that tells the camera whether or not the AE prism finder is installed-- if it is, it ignores the knob on the side, and uses the circuit from the prism finder to set the timing. No finder, no timing, default of 1/500th. That contact, inside the camera, can need adjustment and cleaning.

Fortunately for you, the service manual for the ETRS is online: https://learncamerarepair.com/productlist.php?category=2&secondary=33

Pity the same can't be said for the SQ-A.

Okay so in addition to what i mentioned earlier, i used a little isopropyl alcohol in the contacts surface at the finder socket since there were mentioned by wiltw at some point. I didnt give that much of a credit since they seemed pretty neat to me before the isopropyl rub, but according to what you tell me, it could be the reason why now the speeds are working properly, so thank you too!!! ^^

wiltw · Jun 1, 2021

Interesting to hear a connection between the baffle and the shutter speed, particularly that the standard (no battery) shutter used to be the default but now the chosen shutter speed applies!

Years ago, I had a situation in which the interlock pin in a (purchased used) back interfered sometimes with the mirror going all the way up. When the mirror did a partial 'up', it would appear that the shutter fired, but shutter actually did not open, and so the shutter close confirmation blink did not happen. That entire thing was a series of mechanical interactions.

In your case, it appears as if the mechanical issue also prevented the electronic one from occurring, so it defaulted to 1/500. Odd.

Cmgsk · Jun 2, 2021

Although this is my first real contact with medium format cameras (I studied photography and had the opportunity to take a look at a cool hassel with digital backs and so, but sadly never got to use it) it is really impressive how much complex mechanisms and interactions they have. Looking solutions for this i even could discover a way of removing a back in case your darkslide gets lost which seems to not even appear in the manuals. In this case, its impressive that somehow the camera has detected a mechanical issue and prevented other components to work in vain (intentionally or not). Can't wait to keep learning more interesting things about medium format cameras!

moto-uno · Jun 2, 2021

Hopefully you'll learn what fantastic picture takers they are . Peter

Shooting issue with my new Bronica ETRS

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