Shoot now, develop in a decade.

Omid_K · May 8, 2020

Hello all,

I’d like to save exposed but undeveloped film (variety of BW and C41) for a period of say 5-10 years and I’m wondering if I should compensate by overexposing. When I shoot expired film, I overexpose by a stop per decade out of date. Shouldn’t this work the same way? Does it make a difference if the latent image is written onto the negative early or late in the lifespan of the film?

I’m often 6-12 months behind on processing my film as it is and I’m constantly nostalgic looking at pictures of my 3 year old when he was just a tad younger. That got me thinking: what if each year I kept one roll and intentionally waited a number of years to develop the film? The time is arbitrary but whatever I choose I’d stagger the film, developing the old roll after the predesignated time. In 10 years I’d have never before seen images of my son at 3. The year after I’d develop the roll shot when he was 4, and so on. There seems to be something cool about that.

In addition to my question about exposure/metering I was wondering if I should feeeze the film after it’s been exposed but before it’s been developed. Would that prevent some degradation and/or color shifts? Would that create issues in any way? This isn’t some long term project where consistency matters in terms of camera, lens, or film stock. I’d likely shoot both 35mm and 120 and in a variety of stocks.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance,
Omid

NB23 · May 9, 2020

Yes, freeze 35mm film.
120, I Wouldn’t because of the backing paper which can cause problems.

Bill Burk · May 9, 2020

Your idea makes sense. I personally don’t plan on holding exposed film for a decade, but hey... I have some so I know it happens.

I never found image loss except in one roll of many decades old exposure on film that was badly fogged.

But I use Kodak film and there is a specific film that people think loses latent images.. not Kodak

MattKing · May 9, 2020

Pan F is susceptible to unusually large latent image degradation, and Ilford warns about that.
All films have some susceptibility, but there is probably more problem with environmental damage.
Controlled temperature and humidity is important. Freezing may help with the slow deterioration of the colour components, but may complicate the issue of moisture. I would be more concerned with 120 and other films that involve backing paper than with 35mm.
It would also be interesting to shoot duplicate rolls and develop one for storage with the undeveloped roll. Then when you do develop the second, you could compare.
That would at least protect you against changes in processes. If you had done this with C22 film or Kodachrome, you wouldn't be able to process it today.

koraks · May 9, 2020

Omid_K said:
In 10 years I’d have never before seen images of my son at 3. The year after I’d develop the roll shot when he was 4, and so on. There seems to be something cool about that.

Yeah, like a time capsule. The drawback is that image quality will suffer. With color film, there will be significant crossover and loss of contrast.
A better option from a technical viewpoint would be to develop immediately but store the film without examining the negatives.

mooseontheloose · May 9, 2020

In my very limited experience of shooting and developing found film in cameras (based on images, dating somewhere from the late 1940s to early 60s), I'd say it does make a difference as to when the film is shot. I've found partial rolls in old cameras that were exposed, so I shot the rest of the frames before developing. The latent images that were exposed 70-80 years ago were there (faint or degraded, but still visible and/or printable), where as nothing appeared for the images shot more recently - either the frame was blank, or you could see the degradation in the emulsion (but no image). As for overexposing - in theory I would say that that is a good idea, but you won't know until you try it.

foc · May 9, 2020

The time capsule idea is great, for B&W films no problem, but what about C41?
Will it be still available in 10 years time?

Billy Axeman · May 9, 2020

Develop now to shoot in a timely manner in a decade.

seall · May 9, 2020

You could shoot two identical film types and use the second one to find your dev time.

With the second film shoot a series of 5 bracketed exposures (7 times) -2, -1, 0, +1, +2 of a step tablet print in a room with stable light and a light meter. Then when it comes to developing time cut the film into 4 equally sized bits and develop each bit one at a time in order to find your dev time.

removed account4 · May 9, 2020

hi omid

do you plan on developing the films yourself or sending them to a lab to have them develop?
will you print them traditionally ?
I ask these 2 questions because personally if I was to do this, I wouldn't shoot anything high iso, but maybe 100-200 speed, and just put the film someplace safe like a basement where the temperature won't get too hot or too cold for however long you need to store the film. 400 speed ( at least b+w) you might get a little fog, I probably wouldn't shoot any color because it might be hard to find a lab to process it, or chemistry to do it yourself in 5-10years, b+w it is KING ( or QUEEN ) for sure kind of a sure thing, there's probably always coffee for caffenol and thiosulfate for fixer that's going to be available...if you were to develop the color yourself think about maybe developing in black and white chemistry if you can't find color chemicals ... and as long as you're not printing this stuff traditionally but maybe using modern tech in 5-10 years you will be able to compensate for whatever fog, loss of contrast &c you might encounter. if you want color images you might also think of making color separation negatives ( shooting with r g b filters on your panchromatic b+w film and check out this thread https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/color-images-from-b-w-film.174977/#post-2277512 ). separation negatives and photoshop+scanner are a great backstop / security measure for the future and needing color ...
good luck !
John

ic-racer · May 9, 2020

Process it right away then put it away to print later. Sometimes I worry that I need to print right away too then put the pictures away. Who knows when good printing paper goes away and all my incandescent enlarger lamps burn out...

I have explored ideas related to your interest in the past. I have drawn inspiration from guitar builders to Jack Daniels.

For example, in the 1980s the Rodriguez Serranodriges brothers (Guitar Makers) were stockpiling wood for the next 3 decades.

I am not interested in physical effects of the aging the film, I'm more interested in the aging of the interpretation of the subject mater (which has not aged).

Here is one, recently printed, from a series 35 year old. I also have a project, developed but, yet to be printed from 1999.

Agulliver · May 9, 2020

Personally I would not freeze exposed film. Just keep it cool if you can and avoid high humidity. Maybe over-expose half a stop to one stop, C41 film can take this anyway.

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2020

ic-racer said:
Process it right away then put it away to print later.

The trapped electron slowly leak out and no change in development or exposure can compensate for the random manner that the trapped electrons leave. It is always better to develop film as soon after it is exposed as practical.

PinkPony · May 9, 2020

I have done this. When I slowly lost interest in photography around 2005 I piled up 10 rolls that went undeveloped for 5-10 years. I don't know exactly how long but it was several years. Kept the rolls in a kitchen cabinet so not optimal storage. There was a significant increase in grain compared to freshly developed film. There was HP5, Tri-X and FP4.

cmacd123 · May 9, 2020

every data sheet says "Keep cool, process promptly."

develop the film, you can not look at it if you like, or even get someone else to develop it and roll it up in a black film can.. with a note as to when you expect you will want to look at it.

MattKing · May 9, 2020

cmacd123 said:
get someone else to develop it and roll it up in a black film can

Noooooo.
If you do this, it will have ten years of curl!

Raghu Kuvempunagar · May 10, 2020

Technical challenges aside, the biggest challenge is to be as excited about the project a few years from now as you are today. With some exceptions, most project ideas seem less exciting as days pass by. In the worst case you might not bother to develop the rolls in the distant future and loose the opportunity to see the pics. I would suggest you develop the rolls as you shoot and enjoy the pics. Surely some of those pics will continue to give you joy a decade from now.

guangong · May 10, 2020

Exposed movie film laid frozen in Antarctica for decades before being retrieved and process. My process would be to use fresh film, expose and then keep frozen until processed. I agree with advice to use 100asa film. And a very dependable camera.
This is a great idea. Wish I had thought of it 50 yrs ago. Good luck!

removed account4 · May 10, 2020

Omid_K

im not sure how long gary winograd used to wait before processing his film, but he would always wait a while before developing. when he died (from what I can remember and I might be remembering wrong. ) there was film in ziplock bags, in a file cabinet that were ready to process ... 10,000 of rolls. im guessing if GW was able to do it without an issue you probably won't have much trouble... what you might consider doing. is have a series of rolls you designate as "test rolls". and every IDK 3 years you develop 1 roll to monitor how your fine wine is aging .. so yo have an idea what to expect..
John

etn · May 11, 2020

As we are in the color forum, I assume you are considering color films. I highly recommend developing as soon as you can. I had color shifts on rolls I inadvertently forgot and processed after perhaps 5 years.
Are you processing the rolls yourself, or giving them to a lab? in the latter case, it doesn't make much of a difference if you develop now or later.

I have always been reluctant to freeze rolls whose box/wrapper/etc. has already been open, as I do not know how humidity and condensation can affect the film. YMMV.

As your purpose is to watch the pics several years from now, you could also store all those (processed) films in a black box and just leave it there. Even if you take a quick glimpse at the pics now, you will probably not remember in a few years - the surprise effect should remain intact. (As a matter of fact I often take a look at old pics and the re-discovered memories fascinate me every time. But I am a very forgetful guy!)

Agulliver · May 11, 2020

Echoing what others have said, colour film will exhibit changes faster than B&W. You can get colour shifts, loss of colour, loss of contrast and increase in grain. Last year I was involved in retrieving the images from a film shot some 40-45 years before it was processed. The film was Kodacolor II , and while every exposure did yield some sort of image most had to be heavily edited and finally presented as B&W. But given the age of the film it did stand up well. I've hand processed B&W films 10-60 years after they were exposed....and the results are unpredictable. 10 years for B&W is almost certainly fine...

With colour film, if you're having them processed 5 years or more after exposure, be prepared for deterioration of the images.

Wallendo · May 12, 2020

If shooting black and white, stick a bottle of rodinal in with the films.

Your plan seems like a fun idea. In my case, I doubt I could keep any film in a refrigerator for 5 years without my wife throwing it out or complaining about how I was wasting refrigerator space.

mooseontheloose · May 14, 2020

Wallendo said:
If shooting black and white, stick a bottle of rodinal in with the films.
Your plan seems like a fun idea. In my case, I doubt I could keep any film in a refrigerator for 5 years without my wife throwing it out or complaining about how I was wasting refrigerator space.

That sounds like a really good reason to have a second refrigerator! (I keep mine in the darkroom).

Shoot now, develop in a decade.

Omid_K

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Shoot now, develop in a decade.

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