Shipping chemicals in winter

Joel_L · Jan 31, 2023

I'm pretty sure this is a bad idea, but has anyone bought liquid chemistry in freezing temperatures? I'm running low on C41 and E6, problem is where I am, temps are in the -teensF overnight and I expect colder going over the Rockies west to east to get to me. I woke up this morning to -11F. I'm thinking I need to wait till things warm up a bit.

koraks · Feb 1, 2023

Shipping Chemistry In Cold Weather

I would like to order some Clayton F76 Plus or the similar/equivalent Arista stock from Freestyle. The temperature in my are will dip to 32F tonight. Do I have to worry that these liquids will freeze on their way to me and make them unusable?

www.photrio.com

This covers the common considerations in your case.

Joel_L · Feb 1, 2023

Thanks, I don't know that it gave me a warm fuzzy feeling that all will be good. 32F ( or the -11C mentioned for that matter ) is a long way from -11F and possibly much colder going over the mountain. I'll see if I can find anything in the MDS, not sure if it states a freezing point or not.

Sirius Glass · Feb 1, 2023

The chemicals are salts in some form and the salts ionize the water. Ionized water freezes at lower temperatures than 32°F or 0°C and boils at temperature higher than 212°F or 100°C, the exact change depends on the ionization constant. I hope that eases you mind.

Joel_L · Feb 1, 2023

Not really, the fact that they are a salt does not keep them from freezing, saturated ( NaCl ) salt water freezes around -21C or about -6F, it's colder than that here at night.

Sirius Glass · Feb 1, 2023

Joel_L said:
Not really, the fact that they are a salt does not keep them from freezing, saturated ( NaCl ) salt water freezes around -21C or about -6F, it's colder than that here at night.

I did not post that ionization prevents freezing and the salts that the chemical contain are not NaCl and they will have different ionization constants and different freezing points. The details are covered in college level Chemistry 1 class. Reread my post.

eli griggs · Feb 2, 2023

Just put the solutions in a room temp ice chest or better yet, in a lined cold bag, and then in the ice chest, or wrap in towels or high density foam, inside the chest, and you should be fine.

Waiting for less dangerous weather is always a good idea in the high country.

mshchem · Feb 2, 2023

Joel_L said:
Thanks, I don't know that it gave me a warm fuzzy feeling that all will be good. 32F ( or the -11C mentioned for that matter ) is a long way from -11F and possibly much colder going over the mountain. I'll see if I can find anything in the MDS, not sure if it states a freezing point or not.

Wait, too cold. It says right on the cartons of Kodak color chemistry, keep between 5° and 30° C. I order film when it's cold and liquid chemistry autumn, and not blazing hot. Short bits of warm temperatures won't hurt things like bleach and fixer. My storage is about 15-20 C. I should get rid of the chemicals and store some nice red wine

gone · Feb 2, 2023

I think stuff comes from a warehouse that isn't freezing cold inside (no one would work in that sort of thing), and is loaded into trucks that get a certain amount of residual heat from the friction of the tires on the road below them. There's the truck's exhaust system right below the chemicals too, which is very hot. The truck's cab catches all the freezing wind, but the driver has that big diesel I.C.E. and a good heater to keep them warm.

Plus the stuff is all boxed up, which has an insulation factor. People have been doing this on trains and trucks for how long? If it were an issue, it would have happened over a 100 years ago.

koraks · Feb 2, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
The chemicals are salts in some form and the salts ionize the water. Ionized water freezes at lower temperatures than 32°F or 0°C and boils at temperature higher than 212°F or 100°C, the exact change depends on the ionization constant. I hope that eases you mind.

Freezing is not the primary concern. The real concern here is chemistry precipitating and not redissolving upon heating and stirring afterwards. There are several reports of this happening, especially with color chemistry, and I've personally seen it happen with RA4 developers. It depends on the chemistry, concentration etc.

Freezing would be worrying in terms of damage to the bottles the chemistry comes due to expansion. However, as said, undesirable things can happen way before any freezing occurs.

Shipping chemicals in winter

Joel_L

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Shipping Chemistry In Cold Weather

Joel_L

Sirius Glass

Joel_L

Sirius Glass

eli griggs

mshchem

gone

koraks

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Shipping chemicals in winter

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