Shipped off the Monorail, now researching for a field 4x5

mweintraub · May 27, 2015

I've traded/shipped off the Calumet Cambo 4x5 (45N?) that I received more than 7 years ago. I shot maybe 5 sheets with it and a handful of Type 55 instant I got recently. Other than that, It's lived in the case. I didn't shoot it a lot because:
1) didn't have a good enough tripod that I trusted to go around with it
2) It's HUGE and didn't want to carry it around
3) it's big.

So, I'm looking at something that is:
1) smaller
2) collapseable
3) similar or a subset of movements (possible 0 movements too)
4) Graflok back to use my existing Polaroid 545.
5) <$400 for the body (is this reasonable?)

I've tried looking, but there are many options and couldn't find a good buyers guide. Thoughts on the "new" Intrepid?

Marc.

Sirius Glass · May 27, 2015

Pacemaker Speed or Crown Graphic. The movements are limited but you can also shoot handheld.

Rick A · May 27, 2015

I opted for a B&J 4x5 press camera, has front movements, light weight, uses the same 4x4 lens boards as my old Calumet, so I didn't have to change everything over. I paid less than $250 for it with a lens.

TheFlyingCamera · May 27, 2015

Have you looked on http://www.largeformatphotography.info ? They have lots of articles on their main page as well as the discussion forum at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum .

mweintraub · May 27, 2015

I'm researching there now.

Not fully in my random instant budget, but I've been looking into the Toyo 45CF. I like that it's a little more newer than a not of the press cameras that fit my criteria.

TheFlyingCamera · May 27, 2015

You may find the Toyo 45A/AII/CF have very limiting movements on the rear standard, and cannot be reasonably used with anything wider than a 90mm (this from the owners manual). If these restrictions are not a problem for you, by all means consider them. The 45CF is very light and travels well. If the rear movement and limited wide-angle use are an issue, then look for a Nagaoka, Shen-Hao, or Tachihara. They'll all let you use wider lenses (I don't know for sure if the Tachi or Nagaoka have interchangeable bellows, but I know you can get a bag bellows for the Shen Hao, and the Tachi and Naga both can get the standards closer together than the Toyo) and they have significantly more rear movements (rear rise, tilts and swings) than the Toyos.

mweintraub · May 27, 2015

I don't know how much rear movements would be an issue for me. I haven't shot a lot 4x5, but some movements (front only) might be sufficent. I think 90mm would also be enough for me. Not sure again, as I only had a 210mm lens. I was looking for a 90mm as my next lens for the Calumet though. (and probably the widest I could afford for a long time.)

ETA: I'll check out Nagaoka and the others some more, they look promising too! Thanks! I think it's Spreadsheet data mining time!

Alan Gales · May 27, 2015

If you are not yet a member then join Large Format Photography Forum. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/index.php After you are a member for 30 days you can buy in the for sale section.

$400 is pretty low for a nice field camera. Of course if you are patient you may find something cheap.

Oren Grad · May 27, 2015

TheFlyingCamera said:
...the Tachi and Naga both can get the standards closer together than the Toyo) and they have significantly more rear movements (rear rise, tilts and swings) than the Toyos.

While rear tilt and swing are almost universal, rear rise (or rise/fall) is uncommon in 4x5 wooden field cameras. The Nagaoka and Tachihara don't have it. I haven't kept track of all the Shen Hao variations, but AFAIK most of those don't have it either.

gone · May 27, 2015

4x5 Crown Graphic. Or as Rick mentioned, a 4x5 B&J. You can get one w/ a rangefinder and a graflok back. Very light, very portable, very (pretty much) cheap. Great cameras.

jimjm · May 27, 2015

Oren Grad said:
While rear tilt and swing are almost universal, rear rise (or rise/fall) is uncommon in 4x5 wooden field cameras. The Nagaoka and Tachihara don't have it. I haven't kept track of all the Shen Hao variations, but AFAIK most of those don't have it either.

I've had the Shen-Hao TZ45-IIB for several years now - it has rear rise, tilt and swing but no shift. Rear also slides forward, which helps with wider lenses. It's one of the cheaper wooden field cameras out there, but I've had no issues with reliability or functionality.

TheFlyingCamera · May 27, 2015

I used to have a Shen-Hao HZX-AT II (what an awkward name for a camera model!) that had rear rise, tilts and swings, and rear shifts too. The front had swings and tilts, but I don't think it had shifts.

LMNOP · May 27, 2015

I've been looking at something like this, I think someone above mentioned this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burke-James...362?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ffe48eb2

Looking for my first LF - field seems to have less movements but more portability.

Alan Gales · May 27, 2015

LMNOP said:
I've been looking at something like this, I think someone above mentioned this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burke-James...362?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ffe48eb2

Looking for my first LF - field seems to have less movements but more portability.

I like the 8 1/2" Commercial Ektar. I own a 14" for my 8x10 and it's my favorite lens.

TheFlyingCamera · May 27, 2015

LMNOP said:
I've been looking at something like this, I think someone above mentioned this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burke-James...362?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ffe48eb2

Looking for my first LF - field seems to have less movements but more portability.

They're perfectly serviceable, but calling that particular camera a "field" camera is a little bit of a stretch. Great lens on the kit, though, and it's probably worth the asking price for the lens alone.

Jim Jones · May 27, 2015

For decades my LF camera was a 5x7 B&J flatbed, usually with a 4x5 back. I still use it occasionally. It isn't as rigid as many monorails, but has all the movements one ever needs. Mounting a Graflok back on an improvised back is fairly easy. Buyers should make sure that any B&J flatbed comes with the extension rail. Later B&J press camera have a revolving back and good front movements, but never came with a Graflok back. The Graflex infinity stops are better.

Inexpensive 90mm lenses rarely have enough coverage for extensive front movements. Back tilt is often all one needs for scenic photography.

Mick Fagan · May 27, 2015

LMNOP said:
I've been looking at something like this, I think someone above mentioned this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burke-James...362?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ffe48eb2

Looking for my first LF - field seems to have less movements but more portability.

I have that lens, it is so good I would purchase that camera just for that lens alone. Talk about sharp.

Pretty good price to get you into the scene.

I have the Shen Hao, and as The Flying Camera states, it has pretty much everything one would ever need in a mass produced and very reasonably priced wooden folder. It also takes bag bellows, takes about 1 minute to change and will allow you to use lenses up to 150mm for normal pictorial type stuff. I have used the bag bellows with a 210, but you are a bit limited if your focus is much shorter than about 4 metres. Rear shift on the Shen Hao is really handy and something I use much more than I thought I would, almost a necessity for architectural stuff I have found, and very handy for landscape work.

Mick.

Pioneer · May 27, 2015

I have a couple Graphics that I enjoy using but my little Cambo is still my go to 4x5 field camera. I know it really isn't designed for it but it works so nicely. The tripod is almost as heavy as the camera is and after setting it up and taking it down a few times it doesn't seem that tough. Besides, I though large format was the contemplative format.

But I do have a kickstarter investment in the Intrepid. If it works out I may retire the Cambo...maybe.

LMNOP · May 27, 2015

Mick Fagan said:
I have that lens, it is so good I would purchase that camera just for that lens alone. Talk about sharp.

Pretty good price to get you into the scene.

I have the Shen Hao, and as The Flying Camera states, it has pretty much everything one would ever need in a mass produced and very reasonably priced wooden folder. It also takes bag bellows, takes about 1 minute to change and will allow you to use lenses up to 150mm for normal pictorial type stuff. I have used the bag bellows with a 210, but you are a bit limited if your focus is much shorter than about 4 metres. Rear shift on the Shen Hao is really handy and something I use much more than I thought I would, almost a necessity for architectural stuff I have found, and very handy for landscape work.

Mick.

that looked like a great option, then the listing ended a half hour later....

Any thoughts on this calumet? I saw one at a local shop today, just for show in the store, it had a nice clunky feel to it, I kind of like the materials. This one seems too cheap to be good.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=281693466888

Mick Fagan · May 27, 2015

LMNOP said:
that looked like a great option, then the listing ended a half hour later....

Any thoughts on this calumet? I saw one at a local shop today, just for show in the store, it had a nice clunky feel to it, I kind of like the materials. This one seems too cheap to be good.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=281693466888

I have two of those, one with a shorter monorail. They are big, heavy, can be a bit of a pain to work with, but they produce, or should produce very good stuff with that lens attached.

If that price is a buy it now price, that is a very cheap introduction into the 4x5 format.

You can drag it around into the field, I have done so. You won't travel too far from any vehicular transport though, unless you have it on a set of wheels, like a shopping cart or baby pram etcetera.

The revolving bail back is fantastic, the bellows internally have some kind of rubberised lining, mine are both light tight and they look pretty much like this unit, even after a clean-up.

Something like that is a complete kit, really sharply priced and if all or most of it works, as it should, you will learn heaps and have a very good idea of what your next move forward in LF photography will be, if you decide it is something you like doing.

Mick.

LMNOP · May 28, 2015

Mick Fagan said:
I have two of those, one with a shorter monorail. They are big, heavy, can be a bit of a pain to work with, but they produce, or should produce very good stuff with that lens attached.

If that price is a buy it now price, that is a very cheap introduction into the 4x5 format.

You can drag it around into the field, I have done so. You won't travel too far from any vehicular transport though, unless you have it on a set of wheels, like a shopping cart or baby pram etcetera.

The revolving bail back is fantastic, the bellows internally have some kind of rubberised lining, mine are both light tight and they look pretty much like this unit, even after a clean-up.

Something like that is a complete kit, really sharply priced and if all or most of it works, as it should, you will learn heaps and have a very good idea of what your next move forward in LF photography will be, if you decide it is something you like doing.

Mick.

Thanks! Great info! I actually made an offer for another kit like this for $235 - but the seller is the only and original owner, and it comes with more backs including a polaroid.The lens is a Carl Zeiss Jenna 1:4.5 105mm - a bit wider, any experience?

The Calumets look nice and cheap, but are the mechanics smooth after all these years? If my offer is declined on the Zeiss 105 model, I may grab that $160.

Mick Fagan · May 28, 2015

LMNOP said:
Thanks! Great info! I actually made an offer for another kit like this for $235 - but the seller is the only and original owner, and it comes with more backs including a polaroid.The lens is a Carl Zeiss Jenna 1:4.5 105mm - a bit wider, any experience?

The Calumets look nice and cheap, but are the mechanics smooth after all these years? If my offer is declined on the Zeiss 105 model, I may grab that $160.

Firstly, the Calumet is not what one would call a Rolls Royce, nor is it a Mercedes, more like a modern day Kia from South Korea. Nothing wrong with them at all, just built to a price but with features many more expensive models have but with more refinement.

I would take a Calumet, pull it apart, clean polish the metal bits then put it back together and use it. As a studio camera it is really up there with anything capability wise. Refinement is a bit lacking, but then again you are looking at the bottom of the barrel.

With regard to the Zeiss 105 lens, seems it isn't quite good enough coverage wise for 4x5 film, more like 6.5x9cm than 9x12cm format (4x5").

Good luck.

LMNOP · May 28, 2015

Mick Fagan said:
Firstly, the Calumet is not what one would call a Rolls Royce, nor is it a Mercedes, more like a modern day Kia from South Korea. Nothing wrong with them at all, just built to a price but with features many more expensive models have but with more refinement.

I would take a Calumet, pull it apart, clean polish the metal bits then put it back together and use it. As a studio camera it is really up there with anything capability wise. Refinement is a bit lacking, but then again you are looking at the bottom of the barrel.

With regard to the Zeiss 105 lens, seems it isn't quite good enough coverage wise for 4x5 film, more like 6.5x9cm than 9x12cm format (4x5").

Good luck.

Interesting. I am sure the bottom of the barrel will make a good start, if nothing else it will make me appreciate a nicer model if I should upgrade some day. This kit comes with a roll film back, which would make the 105 more acceptable with the 6x7 crop. When you say too wide for 4x5, does this mean vignetting? Can you combat this by stopping down? There is so much I want to learn, getting my hands on a kit is step one... I really appreciate all the feedback!

Oren Grad · May 28, 2015

jimjm said:
I've had the Shen-Hao TZ45-IIB for several years now - it has rear rise, tilt and swing but no shift. Rear also slides forward, which helps with wider lenses. It's one of the cheaper wooden field cameras out there, but I've had no issues with reliability or functionality.

TheFlyingCamera said:
I used to have a Shen-Hao HZX-AT II (what an awkward name for a camera model!) that had rear rise, tilts and swings, and rear shifts too. The front had swings and tilts, but I don't think it had shifts.

Thanks - looked up both of them, now better informed!

BrianShaw · May 28, 2015

I've been happily photographing with my bottom of the barrel Kia since 1980 is so. In studio and out of the car trunk (boot). Sometimes drag it overland using a 2-wheeled luggage trolley (of similar vintage). I'm sure getting my money's worth!

Shipped off the Monorail, now researching for a field 4x5

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