Shen Hao vs Argentum 5x7

Well, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. My search for the right camera is almost complete. The more I've looked and thought, and read comments around the web (and here- thanks Matt), I'm leaning toward a 5x7 to learn on. The question is which one- the Shen Hao HZX57-IIAT or the Argentum Excursor I. I'm leaning toward 5x7 for its lower cost and portability. I want a camera that is really durable for backpacking. Range in lenses is also important (bellows extension) and movements to some degree (I do mainly landscape, but architectural stuff as well). Obviously I'd prefer a camera that would accept used/aftermarket parts (I guess lensboards would be the big one here) for lower prices. These 2 cameras look like very different beasts to me, so what are your opinions?

Thanks again everybody,
Tim

timbo10ca said:

Well, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. My search for the right camera is almost complete. The more I've looked and thought, and read comments around the web (and here- thanks Matt), I'm leaning toward a 5x7 to learn on. The question is which one- the Shen Hao HZX57-IIAT or the Argentum Excursor I. I'm leaning toward 5x7 for its lower cost and portability. I want a camera that is really durable for backpacking. Range in lenses is also important (bellows extension) and movements to some degree (I do mainly landscape, but architectural stuff as well). Obviously I'd prefer a camera that would accept used/aftermarket parts (I guess lensboards would be the big one here) for lower prices. These 2 cameras look like very different beasts to me, so what are your opinions?

Thanks again everybody,
Tim

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I can't tell if the Argentum uses Linhof style lensboards or not, but it doesn't look like it. The Shen-Hao 57 HZX IIa comes with a larger lensboard with an adapter to allow use of Linhof style boards. This is a plus; on the other hand, the same kind of adapter could easily enough be made for the Argentum. The bigger issue would be bellows draw and movements. I suspect the Shen HZX will have more movements and a longer bellows draw. If you are looking at the FCL, it will be more comparable in spec to the Argentum, but may come in cheaper. Tough choice.

Only going by the photograph of the Argentum and handling experience with the Shen Hao, the Shen HAo would be an easy choice for me. The Argentum appears to be based on a design very similar to an Ansco View. For me, the camera is excessively heavy and some of the movements awkward to use.

The Excursor is a very "basic" design, which has the benefits of low weight and good stability. It's a little limited on movements - I'm in a dialogue with them about a 8x10" camera for short lenses and extreme movements. From this little dialogue I have learned that if you want Linhof-style boards, you'll get it. As well as any other modifications you might want...

The Shen Hao HZX57-IIAT is more "complex". More versatile, but heavier.

I can't decide for you, but I believe there's an Argentum somewhere in the future for me.

I think someone here is expecting an Argentum very shortly, and will post a review I hope. I have ordered one. One major advantage is that all are custom built, so you can (as Ole mentions) have them how you want based around the basic designs. The different models trade off movements against weight and extension. There is a slight downside of scheduling - they take two months to build and the waiting list is about six months at the moment (maybe standard models might be quicker I dont know), while Shen Hao is available off the shelf I think.

Ole what short lenses with extreme movements on 8x10 are you thinking of?

I tried to email Argentum, and never heard back. Is there any "trick" to getting ahold of them? Dean

Justin Cormack said:

Ole what short lenses with extreme movements on 8x10 are you thinking of?

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Not "with", but "and". I wish to be able to use the 121mm Super-Angulon, as well as getting full movements with a 300mm Symmar. Some times I need lots of movements just to be able to frame the shot around here. I don't need to use longer lenses than the 300mm, nor do I need much in the way of movements with the 121mm. I figure that Argentum should be able to build a lightweight camera that an do that.

At present my best camera for that would be the 24x30cm German plate camera with reducing inserts in the holders - it can even focus a 50mm lens at infinity, extends to 1200mm, and has 10cm each of rise and shift on the front panel..

dphphoto said:

I tried to email Argentum, and never heard back. Is there any "trick" to getting ahold of them? Dean

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It might take a week for a reply - they arent on email all the time. If it is much over a week or two perhaps try again. Do make sure your junk mail filter isnt getting rid of it.

The HZX57-IIAT isn't light. It's not 8x10 heavy but the weight is something you need to factor in. It seems the new models have a graflok back to take the 6x17 roll film holder. My older one is just a spring back.

If you're shooting 5x7 I doubt you'll need to change bellows ever. The stock bellows handle around 600mm at the long end. I think somebody makes a 72mm lens that might be a problem with the stock bellows but it easily handles a more reasonable 105mm. OTOH the bag bellows aren't overly expensive. Unless the price has changed.

If you want to shoot 4x5 with it and need very wide lenses then you'll want the bag bellows I guess. I personally don't go that wide.

The case is too small IMHO.

Justin Cormack said:

I think someone here is expecting an Argentum very shortly, and will post a review I hope.

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I am expecting an Excursor I within ten days. Some patience when doing the email part is good, but since Istvan (the builder) has gotten another guy (Peter) who works with sales and communication, things may well speed up a bit in the future.

It's also a good to have an idea what kind of work you want the camera for, and the more specific you are about that, the better, I think. Every camera is built to order and each one may be individually tailored to your needs.

As to the weight, my own camera will weigh in at 1.3 kilogram (about 2.86 lbs for those who are metrically challenged). The lensboards, as far as I understand it, are "proprietary", and can be ordered drilled to size or else left blank.

I'll put up some initial impressions and pictures when the camera arrives. I think I've seen somewhere that Kerry Thalmann has an Argentum of some sort for a future review in an upcoming View Camera issue.

i do not want to disturb your mind, but isn't it easier to buy 4x5 film (and also a 4x5 camera) than 5x7? the extra inch is not that much in my opinion.
Or have is missed some point in a different thread?

I bought a shen hao 4x5 2 years ago directly from china for 450 bucks. It is not a linhof quality as i had before, but i like it for the movements and the (less)weight. I use it for landscapes.

Willie Jan said:

i do not want to disturb your mind, but isn't it easier to buy 4x5 film (and also a 4x5 camera) than 5x7? the extra inch is not that much in my opinion.
Or have is missed some point in a different thread?

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It's not an extra inch it's 20 sq in vs 35 sq in It would be nice to have a 4X5 back for the 5X7 too though.

Worse when you crop 4x5 into a 5x7 type shape it gets even smaller.