Shen hao 7X17

jgjbowen said:

Stefano, as an owner of a Richard Ritter 7x17 camera, I would strongly suggest you consider this camera prior to making your decision. The link is listed above, but this camera has 34" of bellows, easily converts from horizontal to vertical (this is a HUGE advantage over other designs), has a bail back and is extremely light weight.....all this for $3,400. One other advantage to Richard's camera is that if you ever decide you want to try 11x14, 8x20, 12x20, 14x17, 16x20 or 20x24 all you need to do is purchase another back and bellows from Richard and you are good to go. You see, the rail system is the same for all these formats, so changing formats is a matter of loosening a few screws and you are good to go. While I'm not sure I will ever change from 7x17, the fact that going to 12x20 would not be another major expense, at least not for the camera, was a major consideration in choosing Richard's camera.

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I second John's recommendation that anyone thinking about purchasing a 7x17 camera give Richard Ritter's camera serious consideration.

Technically, Richard and I are about to become competitors. However, I consider Richard a friend and wish him great success in his camera building venture. He deserves any and all success that comes his way, and I believe the market is big enough for multiple strong players.

I also believe the best customer is an educated one. Every camera design is unique. As a camera reviewer, I've been singing the same mantra for years: there is no one perfect camera for all users or all uses. It is up to the buyer to study all the options and select the camera best suited to their specific needs. Richard's camera is indeed a unique design with attributes and features not available in other products. I believe Richard's camera and the Chamonix are different enough that each will appeal to different users for different reasons.

So, do your homework, study all of your options and pick the best camera for your needs.

Kerry

Michael, Whether you were the driving force behind that batch of 7x17's or not I still consider you to be a "lucky" Phillips owner. I say this because I became interested in a Phillips after seeing yours. I then putzed around getting the money together and was to late to get in on the last batch. A few had still been available after he started making them. I don't deny that Shen-Hao is taking some design that goes back to the Phillips. It is just like the Ural motorcycle (Russian) is a direct rip off of the BMW. My point is that while some people may buy a Ural, not one sale is being lost by BMW. There is no comparison to build quality. From a hundred feet away they make look the same, by 90 feet you can see the paint peeling off the Ural. Look at the Seagull vs. Rolleiflex. Rip off? Sure. Stealing buyers? I think not.

I have spent my money on a Deardorff 5x7 and 8x10. Why? Because it's a Deardorff. I may build my own 7x17 from an old Ansco. With Chamonix coming onto the scene and being carried by Kerry I have some thinking to do.

If in the end Chamonix takes some of Wisner's business it will not be because Chamonix is cheaper or stole some design, it will be because Kerry can be trusted. So can Mr. Ritter and Mr. Canham. All different designs and choices. How can this amount of choices be bad for the world of L/F?

You are well know for your 7x17 Pd. prints. Some work more with 4x5 enlargements or 5x7 or 8x10 contacts. The commitment to a high end ULF may be to much for only occasional work. Lots of reasons, lots of choices.

Michael Mutmansky said:

The truely lucky person will be the one who asks me where one of the last Phillips 7x17's may be available for sale, as I know someone who may decide to part with one.

---Michael

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By definition I am a lucky guy. I asked Michael that question early last spring and in May I purchased the 7x17 Phillips camera he located. As I understand it, both buyer and seller consider Michael a friend. We first met when I asked him for help getting a Durst cold light enlarger for my 8x10 Phillips. Now if I just had enough money left over to get lucky on that big Schneider lens he reviewed...... Thank you Michael.

John Powers

Donald,

I was not trying to tell you what or what not to do. I was just making a post to anyone, giving my feelings about cameras. Personally, I know lots of people, not just with cameras, but with things like guitars, cars or similar mechical equiptment that when something goes wrong, they do not know what to do and need someone to fix it for them. I just feel it's important that people know how to repair their equiptment and know how it works. One cannot always rely on a customer service rep to have on hand 24/7.

Matt,

Sorry if my typing tone was read differently than intended. That seems to be a common problem with typing online. No attitude was intended in my post.

Stephano,

I'm sure you will be pleased with whatever camera you plan to purchase. Like someone said before, they are all different tools for creating the final image. Observe how you photograph, what type of subject you photograph and what your planning on doing with the camera. Do you need long bellows for close ups and long lenses, do you need extreme light weight for back packing, ect ect ect. You only have a few different camera to pick from, but the choice can be just as difficult as buying a car!

scootermm said:

Donald Miller said:

Ryan McIntosh said:

I have to agree with donald on this. Granted, I myself am a youngster both in age and photographic experience. But honestly, Ryan, your tone (as much as tone can be read in a typed post) was one of a somewhat elitist attitude.
As Kerry very eloquently posted about Phillips and his cameras/designs, copying is pretty standard in the LF/ULF world, I mean lets be honest, the F&S and Koronas look alot like the designs of most every LF/ULF camera, for that matter most all LF/ULF cameras have very similar designs year after year. Also, given a recent post I believe your figure of $4k for a shen hao 717 is a bit off, I believe if I can remember the email and post Ive read recently that the shenhao 717 is $3300. $700 is a big difference (an additional 2 S&S holders actually)
Its frustrating that such seemingly elitist attitudes are fairly common in a community that would benefit much more from a familial attitude.

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Amund said:

I have bought cameras directly from Shen-Hao twice, no problems at all.
They`re not very good in English, but that wasn`t really a problem.

And what hassles with personal imports? It may be different here in Norway? The cameras came with Fed-Ex, wich takes care of customs clearance, all I have to do is pay the customs bill, wich they send by mail a few days later.

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I have had several emails with Zhang Fuming and have found his English far superior to my Chinese...EC

I have been researching 7 x 17 camera for the past year and half. I have tried the Korona and looked at a Wisner, Canham and the Shen hao. In my quest I talked to Richard Ritter about his camera and have seen it in the prototype stage and have since worked with a production model. Richard has put a lot of time and reseach into his camera.

I find I do a lot of verticals and there were posting of how to do verticals on this forum. What it comes do to is you need a second tripod and the camera is not easy to work with in a vertical position. I tried it when I was working with the Korona big pain in the backside. This would hold true for most of the camera being made today. Richard Ritter camera on the other hand is a simple change and the weight is over the tripod in stead of hanging off the side wanting to tip over onto the ground and no second tripod to carry around .

As to size Richard camera footprint in the close position is the same size as a Wisner. Weight wise a lot lighter. As to looks it grows on you and I don’t care what it looks like, its how it works. The sturdiness of the camera and the fact it can be change very quickly to other formats is a big plus.

I have a camera on order with Richard and expect to be able to pick it up in a few weeks I had him do a modification to it to need my needs. The reason I went with Richard is its made in the USA by someone who is committed to this field.

As far as I know, Chamonix is a very nice camera, the maker of the camera not only took the merit of Dick's design, he also studied a lot of other camera designs too before he came up with his model; and he aslo try to integrate some monorail camera concept along with flat-bed camera concept. The material he used and the build quality is far better than shen-hao.

From the comments of the users in China, it seems like they all like the light weight and stability of the camera.

I am glad to see Mr. Thalmann is willing to bring this camera to US market because it's really going to make a lot people happy.

Alex W.

I have seen the Chamonix 7x17 camera in person. It's build quality and usability features (Chinese engineering innovation that makes good sense) is quite outstanding. The Chamonix may well be worth a close look for those in the market for such things.

It will be interesting to see what other format cameras Kerry is able to bring to the US market too.

photobum said:

... With Chamonix coming onto the scene and being carried by Kerry I have some thinking to do...

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cperez said:

I have seen the Chamonix 7x17 camera in person. It's build quality and usability features (Chinese engineering innovation that makes good sense) is quite outstanding. The Chamonix may well be worth a close look for those in the market for such things.

It will be interesting to see what other format cameras Kerry is able to bring to the US market too.

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I own a 7X17" Canham and find it to be a great camera, very light in weight, lots of movements and lots of bellows draw.

If I were in the market today for a 7X17 I would definitely consider Richard Ritter's camera. As pointed out, it has quite a bit of bellows draw and the great feature of setting up either in veritical or horizontal format. That would be a very important consideration for me because puttiing the Canham in vertical format is not at all easy.

That said, any camera that copies a Phillips design is gong to be a good one.

Sandy

sanking said:

That said, any camera that copies a Phillips design is gong to be a good one.

Sandy

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If the build quality holds up to inspection, and the principles of the engineering that Dick used are understood by the designer of the camera.

I would suggest that there is considerable difference in build quality between the Shen Hao 8x10 camera and an 8x10 Phillips camera, based on my exposure to it last year at the VC conference. If the same holds true in the 7x17, then they are not truely equals.

This is the same condition that holds in the post-war Leica knockoffs (with some exceptions coming from Japan), the russian Hassleblad copies, and just about every other camera copy that has been made. It makes no sense to make an exact copy, because of the costs involved. Generally, some quality and design modifications must be made to be able to hit a different market.


---Michael