Shen Hao 4x5 View Camera

modafoto · Sep 20, 2004

Hi

I looked at J&C site and found the camera. I am thinking 'bout going LF for some of my work (still lifes), and think camera would suit my needs. Any comments?
If anyone says I should go 8x10 I really need good arguments. I think it's tooooo expensive and I think 4x5 will give sufficient quality.

Morten

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 20, 2004

Tom Sauerwein just bought one, so you might pm him if he doesn't respond in this thread. It looks like the best value in a wooden folding field camera out there right now.

8x10" would give you a nice size neg for contact printing, and I found I working with the larger groundglass more intuitive and appealing at first. There are used 8x10" cameras to be had for around the price of a Shen-Hao, and it's not necessarily more expensive to work in 8x10". You can process in trays and can contact print, so you don't really need an enlarger or enlarging lens big enough for 4x5". There are lots of affordable excellent classic lenses out there for 8x10", particularly if you contact print, where you might want more modern lenses for 4x5" if you enlarge. In general, one just shoots less film and shoots it more carefully as format goes up, so that cost balances out somewhat.

I shoot both, but I'm generally more satisfied with the work I've done on 8x10" than 4x5".

Thomassauerwein · Sep 20, 2004

I have shot with the Shen-Hao 3 times now and am beginning too relax with it. For the money it is really well worth it. It packs up very nicely and has plenty of movement. I am spoiled however by my Horseman so I do get a bit irratated by all the effort involved for using the different functions. Also 2 of my lenses don't fit so I'm having to make adapters.

noseoil · Sep 20, 2004

I bought a Shen Hao 4x5 about 2 years ago now. I'm pleased with it and it has proved to be a reliable, decent, well thought out camera. It weighs 6 pounds. Fit and finish are both satisfactory. It has a few advantages over the Wista. Axis tilt and base tilt. The rear standard moves forward for short focal length lenses. You will be limited to 300mm lenses, unless you go the tele route. A good value for the money.

L Gebhardt · Sep 20, 2004

I agree with everything noseoil said. I have had mine for about 18 months now and still am very happy with it. I am thinking of getting the 8x10 version as well, expecially if I can get a 5x7 reducing back for it.

Mongo · Sep 20, 2004

I've been shooting with my Shen-Hao for a little over a year and am very happy with it. About the only thing that I would change (in fact, will change in the near future) is the ground glass. The stock ground glass isn't the best (it's usable, but upgrading a ground glass is cheap and an easy way to make a good camera even better). It's heavier than the camera to which it is most often compared (the Tachihara), but it has a full compliment of movements whereas there are some sacrifices in the Tachihara in the interest of saving weight. Only you can decide which is more important to you: more movements or less weight.

I pack up my Shen-Hao, 3 lenses (90, 127, and 250), light meter, six film holders, a roll film back, various filters and cables, a loupe, and a dark cloth all into a backpack that's quite manageable.

raucousimages · Sep 20, 2004

I shoot 4x5 and 8x10, both toyo. The 8x10 is so large I seldom use it on location but I love it in studio. I print 24x36 inch from 100-TMAX 4x5 negs with no grain problem so I see no need to go bigger unless you are going to contact print. Composition on 8x10 ground glass is nicer than on 4x5 and there is just something about viewing those big negs but with modern films you don't need to use 8x10. Also with 4x5 you can use a roll film back. I shoot black and white sheet and back up some shots with color on a 6x9 roll back. I found the 4x5 will not draw crowds like the 8x10. Most people have not seen a camera that size in use and they all want to talk and see the glass (or argue that you need to give it up for digital). This has cost me several shots.

Alex Hawley · Sep 20, 2004

I don't have a Shen-Hao, but if I had chosen to start my LF career with a new camera, the SH would have been teh choice. In the three years that I have been following LF equipment reviews, I have never read a bad word about it.

With regards to going 4x5 or 8x10, my experience is similar to David's. I started with a 4x5 but moved to 8x10 after less than a year. Despite haveing the same capabiities as 4x5, the 8x10 just seems far more intuitive. Expense has just not been a factor except for the initial outlay for the equipment, which has repaid itself in my mind. There certainly is a valid issue with portability between the two formats. That is something each individual has to decide for himself. If I had it to do over again, I would have started with 8x10 and not bothered with 4x5.

I can make the same argument about contact printing versus enlarging. Contact printing is a breeze. Now the enlarger feels like a PITA. And I waste more sheets of paper trying to get the good print than I do contact printing.

mark · Sep 20, 2004

It all depends on what you want to shoot. If you want to shoot color then 8x10 is way more expensive. If all you want to shoot is BW then the cost is negligable because of what you don't need and you can shoot with older lenses that are pretty cheap.

Ole · Sep 20, 2004

Since everyone else is debatine 4x5" vs. 8x102, I'll just jump in to recommend 5x7".

The cameras are bigger and heavier than 4x5", but a lot smaller and lighter than 8x10". With a reducing back they are only slightly heavier than a 4x5" (especially if you compare a 5x7" Shen-Hao to a 4x5" Technika). Most lenses for 4x5" will cover 5x7", so there is very little need for "upgrading". Even old "convertible" Symmar 150mm/f:5.6 cover 5x7" straight on!

Except for very wide lenses, a reducing back poses no problems in use.

5x7" cameras have longer, wider bellows, which make extreme movements and long lenses easier to use.

5x7" contact prints are a lot larger than 4x5", and only slightly smaller than 8x10". This sounds crazy, but is very much my experience.

For the record, I shoot 35mm, MF, 9x12cm, 4x5", 5x7", 13x18cm and 18x24cm. Every size is different, but in LF I find 5x7" (13x18cm) to be an exellent compromise between size and portability.

Now I only have to sell some picures, so I can afford a 5x7" Shen-Hao - it's on top of my wish list!

Loose Gravel · Sep 20, 2004

I'm with Ole. 5x7 or bust. The other nice things about 5x7 are the aspect ratio, I love it. And I can hold a piece of 5x7 film in one hand. This means it is easier to develop or load holders than with the 8x10. 8x10 is fun, but the camera is a pig.

steve simmons · Sep 20, 2004

Before selecting a camera you need to decide on the following

what are you going to photograph?

wha lenses do ou want to use?

Without knowing the anwers to these questions you can not decide on what features you need on a camera body.

Here is some reading I recommend
The free articles on th View Camera web site www.viewcamera.com

One of these books

User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone

Using the View Camera that I wrote

Before taking anyone's advice about their camera you need to know what they photograph and what lenses they use. Otherwise it is advice without any context.

Badger Graphics also sells the Shen Hao.

steve simmons

Alex Hawley · Sep 20, 2004

Steve's advice on these questions is always good. Poke around in the books and the various internet forums on large format. All too often, as with other camera formats, everyone swears their particular set-up is the greatest. I always compare that to selling fishing lures. Every fishing lure is gaurenteed to catch fish. But there's no gauretee the user will know how to use nor be in a place where its the right lure at the right time.

Just one more plug for going straight to the 8x10; Remember, with reducing backs, you can shoot 4x5, 5x7, and 120 roll film. There's a great deal of verstility there.

John Kasaian · Sep 21, 2004

Morten,

There is nothing wrong with 4x5! The real advantage to going larger is in contact printing B&W. The aspect ratio of 5x7 is very satisfying and 8x10 is an absolute joy to work with(check out the latest cover of Esquire!)

I find the added cost of "going big" not all that much of a deterrent. For film (in the US) you can enjoy repackaged Forte for 60-64 cents a sheet in 5x7 and about $1.40 a sheet for 8x10. Repackaged Ilford(bless 'em) 60 cents to $1.08 a sheet in 5x7 and about $2 a sheet in 8x10. Even Kodak 8x10 will only cost $2.76-$2.88 a sheet which even I find do-able when rare circumstances require the unique reciprocity qualities of Tmax. The economic folly of "burning up" film supports the slower pace of LF many find to be quite rewarding.

Most chemicals can be purchased in bulk quite cheaply, especially if you're willing to mix powders or dilute the "institutional" stuff. While printing papers aren't cheap (nor should they be if you care about your prints) you can still shop around for good deals if you're prepared to buy in quantity, such as Arista's Classic Graded Fiber(I think its Ilford Galerie) in 250 sheet boxes, or Michael and Paula's AZO in 500 sheet boxes. While this seems like a lot of paper(and it is!) these same papers and others that might suit your tastes are available in small quantities. I only bring it up because it can still be considered an economical alternative if your output can justify the order.

Best of all, you don't need an enlarger(or the space for one!)

What ever large format you choose, live large, and enjoy it!

mobtown_4x5 · Sep 21, 2004

I got the Shen Hao 4x5 a few months ago, and I've been happy with it all in all. I upgraded the GG to the SatinSnow (simply a very finely ground glass, I have never tried a fresnel) which was a big improvement.
Most of my issues are simply making the transition from my sturdy Graphic View monorail- I find the Shen (as probably any field cameera would be) very "fiddly".
The monorail is still my favorite- but I need to get out there and really get good with the Shen- it's definately a great buy.

I am resisting the temptation to move up to 11x14 (I rarely print 8x10) contact/platinum printing because I want to learn to get 99% out of my 4x5/enlarger setup first. (See the infamous "magic bullet" article).

Good luck, whichever way you go.

Matt

modafoto · Sep 21, 2004

Hi

It seems that I should revise my 4x5 choice and check out 5x7 and 8x10. I am very keen on 5x7, as I still think 8x10 is big! But I am going to use it mainly in the studio so that really doesn't matter....confused...? I am!
Thank you all for the comments.

Greetings Morten (who may be entering the LF world soon...thanks to APUG)

Aggie · Sep 21, 2004

Goddag Morten,

One quick question for you, What type of enlarger are you going to use with the film? If the largest size your enlarger will handle is 4x5, does that not tell you what format to buy? If you are going to contact print, by all means go for the 8x10. In fact Jim Chinn is coming out SOON (big hint Jim) with a line of ULF cameras. You might want to get an 11x14 with an 8x10 reducing back from him. That would give you a negative choice for contact printing of 8x10 or 11x14. Once I figured out what my darkroom can handle, that is when I would choose a corresponding format size camera.

Shen Hao 4x5 View Camera

modafoto

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Thomassauerwein

noseoil

L Gebhardt

Mongo

raucousimages

Alex Hawley

mark

Ole

Moderator

Loose Gravel

steve simmons

Alex Hawley

John Kasaian

mobtown_4x5

modafoto

Aggie

Shen Hao 4x5 View Camera

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