Sheet film in trays.. how many sheets at once?

darinwc · Mar 26, 2007

I just souped up some 4x5 sheets that had been accumulating for the last 6 months. I didnt realize it until i started, but there were quite a few.. 30 to be precise. Other than a few sheets getting badly scratched because of my fumbling, are there any adverse effects to tray-processing so many at one time?

Darkroom:
Home-made dark-box with 3 non-stick caserole trays and nylon jacket sleeves.

presoak:
2 min in 500 ml distilled water
(some sheets stuck together cause my hads were wet so I had to make sure they were all separated before i started development)

Developer:
1 liter of rodinal solution 1:50
13 Min @68 Degrees shuffle method in tray

Fixer:
1 liter ilford rapid fixer solution 1:10
10 min @68 Degrees shuffle method in tray

Wash:
5 min @68 degrees in 2 gal running distilled water.

Dry:
Coat hangers and binder clips hanging from the kitchen lamp overnight.

Kilgallb · Mar 26, 2007

30 sheets of 4x5 at once will give you time for only one agitation cycle in 4-5 minutes. The developer in contact with a sheet will exhaust before the next agitation cycle. Thirty sheets would require 30 x 2 ounces or 60 ounces of developer. I cannot see developing 30 sheets at once being practical.

Try six or less.

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 26, 2007

I've read that Jock Sturges does up to 16 sheets at a time. I generally don't do more than 8.

If you have a lot of volume regularly, try tanks and hangers. I developed 30 sheets of 5x7 and 4x5 and two rolls in my 5x7" tanks a few days ago, up to 8 sheets per batch, and it was pretty quick. If you have even more 4x5", you can use 8x10" tanks with hangers that hold 4 sheets.

Before you start, be sure you have space to dry the film. I recommend Jobo clips, if you are working in a small space. They're expensive, but they never drop the film, and they let you fit a lot of film on a short drying line, no matter what the sheet size is.

jgjbowen · Mar 26, 2007

I would recommend as many sheets as you can shuffle through the stack in 30 seconds. For me that is about 8 4x5 and 6 8x10. I read where Richard Ritter can handle something like 16 4x5 sheets per 30 second cycle. I'm not that coordinated I like having a couple seconds to stretch my back every cycle (I'm 6' 6" and bending over the sink isn't a whole lot of fun) I already have 3" of lift under my sink to help raise it a bit. YMMV

Sparky · Mar 26, 2007

How the HECK do you guys DO that? I've tried on four occasions - being as cautious as I possibly can... as soon as I turn on the light - the fixer is full of shreds of emulsion...! urgh.

Roger Hicks · Mar 26, 2007

Sparky said:
How the HECK do you guys DO that? I've tried on four occasions - being as cautious as I possibly can... as soon as I turn on the light - the fixer is full of shreds of emulsion...! urgh.

Me too!

The answer to the original question is...

ONE

Cheers,

R.

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 26, 2007

Emulsion face up, plenty of solution, tray one size larger than the film.

Keep the stack stacked along the edge closest to you. Pull the bottom sheet straight out and place on the top of the stack with the leading edge slightly raised so that it doesn't nick the sheet below it and pat it down with the balls of your fingertips. Wear gloves to protect your hands from the chemicals and the film from your hands.

Maintain an even and deliberate cadence.

I divide the development time into 4 periods and turn the stack 90 degrees clockwise for each period.

I find that if I try to develop one sheet, I'm more likely to have overdevelopment at the edges, so I usually try to do at least two at a time.

Monophoto · Mar 26, 2007

The answer is to use a slosher. Six sheets at a time - they never touch each other and the only thing that touches the emulsion is processing solution. Hence, no scratches.

Roger Hicks · Mar 26, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
Emulsion face up, plenty of solution, tray one size larger than the film.

Keep the stack stacked along the edge closest to you. Pull the bottom sheet straight out and place on the top of the stack with the leading edge slightly raised so that it doesn't nick the sheet below it and pat it down with the balls of your fingertips. Wear gloves to protect your hands from the chemicals and the film from your hands.

Maintain an even and deliberate cadence.

I divide the development time into 4 periods and turn the stack 90 degrees clockwise for each period.

I find that if I try to develop one sheet, I'm more likely to have overdevelopment at the edges, so I usually try to do at least two at a time.

Dear David,

I am lost in admiration!

Cheers,

R.

sepiareverb · Mar 26, 2007

Thirty? Gutsier (is that a word?) than I.

I can run 8 45s and 6 810s per tray- and always with a big tray.

Slow and steady wins the race.

David- that is a very eloquent description.

darinwc · Mar 26, 2007

Looking back, my biggest problem was the initial wetting. It was really tough to separate the the film when i touched the dry stack with a wet finger. I think this is where i got the scratches from. I really need 3 hands for it. One hand to hold the stack of film, one hand to remove a single sheet, and another hand that gets wet to make sure that single sheet is submerged in the presoak.
Any ideas on this?
Darin

reellis67 · Mar 26, 2007

I prefer hangers and tanks for large volumes, but I can shuffle up to 8 4x5 at once. The trick, for me anyway, is to use a small tray and put the emulsion side down. I lay each sheet in the water, one at a time as I unload the holders. Then I move them from the bottom of the soaking stack into the developer one at a time by sliding my fingers under the stack by way of the grooves in the tray. I slide one sheet out, lay that sheet flat on the surface of the developer and gently 'sink' it with my fingertips to the top of the stack. Repeat until your time is up. I then move to the fixer in the same fashion, one at a time, and shuffle there.

So far, the only film that I've has scratching problems with is EFKE. All the Iford sheet films I use turn out fine every time using this method.

- Randy

Amund · Mar 26, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
I've read that Jock Sturges does up to 16 sheets at a time. I generally don't do more than 8.

He does 24 8x10`s of TXP in hc-110 dil.B at a time...

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 26, 2007

darinwc said:
Looking back, my biggest problem was the initial wetting. It was really tough to separate the the film when i touched the dry stack with a wet finger. I think this is where i got the scratches from. I really need 3 hands for it. One hand to hold the stack of film, one hand to remove a single sheet, and another hand that gets wet to make sure that single sheet is submerged in the presoak.
Any ideas on this?
Darin

Spread out the dry sheets in your hand like a hand of cards as you get ready to put them into the first tray.

darinwc · Mar 26, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
Spread out the dry sheets in your hand like a hand of cards as you get ready to put them into the first tray.

Ooh thats a good idea..

Wayne · Mar 26, 2007

and if you get one speck of liquid on any sheet except the one you are grabbing from the deck, get ready for some fun.

Wayne

FredW · Mar 26, 2007

I generally do 6-8 4x5, and 4-6 8x10 at a time in trays. For the pre-soak, I usually use my bare hands, put them in one at a time, and then shuffle until the film do not stick together. Dry my hands, the put on gloves for the remainder of the processing.

MurrayMinchin · Mar 26, 2007

I do six at a time, emulsion down. Fan them as suggested earlier, then use your index finger and thumb to get each negative from the fan, but push it totally under water with only your little finger. This gets no water into the dry negatives and gets each one completely submergerd before the next one is added.

Another thing I do is to spin each tray so the corners are facing me, then I prop up the far corner of each tray about 1/4 of an inch. What this does during agitation is that every negative settles slowly down into the bottom corner of the tray (the corner facing you) and you don't end up trying to keep the stack straight and agitate at the same time...a source of many scratches! (I agitate the stack more towards the corner than in the middle of the tray).

Murray

removed account4 · Mar 26, 2007

i tray processed 28 sheets of 4x5 film the last time i had some
one tray ( 8x10 ) for 8 mins total ( in dev. )
it can be done without exhausting the developer, without scratches,
and resulting in good negatives

usually i process between 8+16 ( 4x5 or 5x7 sheets) at a time, the 1st water bath
is a pain, where the film tends to stick together, even if they are dropped in
to the tray one at a time ...

Rob Skeoch · Mar 26, 2007

1 sheet of 8x10. But I have a second in the prewash so I can keep the cycle going. It takes a long time... but then I don't like scratches.

eddym · Mar 26, 2007

I process 4 - 4x5 sheets in an 8x10 print tray, emulsion side up, and keep them separated from each other (into the 4 corners of the tray) with my fingers. I've tried the stacking method, but they scratched badly. I still get a few small scratches with the 8x10 trays.
I guess I really need to try a tank...

MurrayMinchin · Mar 26, 2007

jnanian said:
i tray processed 28 sheets of 4x5 film...

Hi John,

If I took as many exposures as you, I'd be ramping it up past 6 at a time!

Murray

darinwc · Mar 28, 2007

Update: they appeared to come out ok.. I'm having problems with my scanner but once i get it working I will post some scans.

brummelisa · Apr 1, 2007

Amund said:
He does 24 8x10`s of TXP in hc-110 dil.B at a time...

Are you sure he uses hc-110 dil B?
Because what I have heard he overexposes the images with 2-3 steps and develop shorter time to bring back the white areas again.
With hc-110 B it will only be a couple of minutes then and in that case will he have the time to do 24 sheets?

/ Marcus

Amund · Apr 1, 2007

brummelisa said:
Are you sure he uses hc-110 dil B?
Because what I have heard he overexposes the images with 2-3 steps and develop shorter time to bring back the white areas again.
With hc-110 B it will only be a couple of minutes then and in that case will he have the time to do 24 sheets?

/ Marcus

Actually slightly stronger than dil B, 70ml of hc-110 in 2 liters of water, that makes for a 1:28 mix....
He develops for 4min 15 seconds, and rate his Tri-X at around EI 100.

The info is from Jock, in an email to me.

Sheet film in trays.. how many sheets at once?

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Sheet film in trays.. how many sheets at once?

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