Sheet film agitation

Ariston · Apr 17, 2019

I am about to shoot and develop my first 4x5 film. In preparing, I pulled up the time/temp from the massive dev chart for HP5+. On the chart, sheet film, 35mm, and 120 are all developed the same time. I expect this for the roll films, but I intend to develop my sheets in a tray with CONSTANT agitation.

Should I adjust my time, change my agitation plans, or what? Please let me know what you do for HP5+ (at box speed) in a tray. I will be using HC110 with 1+15 dilution per the massive dev chart.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

jimjm · Apr 17, 2019

I would also recommend downloading the datasheets from Ilford and Kodak for the film and developer you are using. I never use information from the Massive Dev chart unless I can't find it anywhere else.
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1903/product/695/

Most commonly, for sheet film in trays with constant agitation, you would reduce the development time by 15% from what is used for roll films.

Peter Schrager · Apr 17, 2019

I just shuffle through the stack and then wait another minute to do it again
Learn to develop by inspection with a green filter and a footswitch...time and temp charts are only approximate
It's really very easy once u learn

Ariston · Apr 17, 2019

Thanks - I will probably give both of these a try.

koraks · Apr 18, 2019

I have done constant agitation with sheet films in both tanks and trays quite a bit. In trays, I've switched to intermittent agitation (a few agitations per 30 seconds) to reduce the risk of hot edges, ie overdevelopment along the edges of the film. You may or may not run into this issue, so YMMV. If I were you, I'd just proceed as planned, evaluate the results and adjust your work flow based on any issues you run into. In general, constant agitation requires slightly reduced development times, but I personally err on the high side when it comes to development as I prefer a little too much contrast instead of not enough, but that is also due to the subject matter I generally shoot and my preferences in printing.

Jarin Blaschke · Apr 18, 2019

I use a pyro-metol developer which requires constant agitation, one sheet at a time. I experienced overdeveloped edges from the get-go, so switched to trays one size bigger than my film (12x15 for 8x10 film) which resolved the issue. It is a very inefficient developer to film ratio, but I like my results so much I guess I’m stuck with it! In your case, a 5x7 tray with hc110 should not be unreasonably expensive. You can also, after some experience, try the shuffle method with multiple sheets and the cost goes down again.

Ariston · Apr 18, 2019

I have 5x7 trays to use with HC110. I am going to try one sheet at a time at first, since I am new. I may switch to shuffling them once I am more comfortable.

Alan9940 · Apr 18, 2019

Back when I developed sheet film in trays, I used constant agitation (shuffle method) but always had enough sheets in the stack such that any single sheet was moved about every 30 secs. If memory serves, I could handle about 4-5 sheets of 8x10 and about 10-12 sheets of 4x5. If I was developing only, say, a couple of sheets I'd fill in with old blank sheets to maintain the total number of sheets. Working this way, development times were about the same as developing small format film in a tank and agitating every 30 secs. FWIW, I always found it easier to shuffle the sheets and got more even development when I used the next tray size larger than the film; for example, an 8x10 tray for 4x5.

silveror0 · Apr 18, 2019

I have always done tray processing for sheet film, using the next size larger tray than film size (e.g., 5x7 tray for 4x5 film). I started by developing one sheet at a time, rocking the tray constantly by lifting one short edge of the tray a few times then switching to one of the long edges for a few times and repeating throughout the total dev time. This procedure never caused overdevelopment of the sheet’s edges. When I got confident with this technique, I started shuffling six sheets at a time, once through the stack every 30 seconds. This Ilford tech sheet should help you decide on the dev time for HP5+ in HC-110: http://monochrome.me.uk/upload/HP5_Plus.pdf . Notice, though. neither Dilution A (1+15) nor ISO less than box speed is recommended (in order to avoid risk of uneven development); however, I have done both without detriment when doing Zone System tests for personal EI & N / N+ / N- dev times. My results are attached for stack development, using EI 200 to achieve a density of 0.1 above film base + fog for Normal development. I also choose to add another 1/3-stop of exposure to EI 200, when N- development can cause a minor loss of film speed. I only found Dilution A was necessary to achieve N+2.

silveror0 · Apr 20, 2019

I should also add to my above post that each curve results from a single exposure of a Stouffer 31-step wedge taped to the film in-camera. So the testing really doesn't take long - a couple of days to do the exposures and chart the results.The negatives are rinsed under running water, then quickly dried with a hair dryer for densitometer readings. I can then feel confident of a high success rate in my field work. I prefer this approach, rather than "trial-and-error" adjustments following field results.

removed account4 · Apr 20, 2019

Peter Schrager said:
I just shuffle through the stack and then wait another minute to do it again
Learn to develop by inspection with a green filter and a footswitch...time and temp charts are only approximate
It's really very easy once u learn

+1
AA's book "the negative" details how to do it pretty well, at least the shuffling part.

Have fun !!
John

Gary Gruber · Apr 21, 2019

Jarin Blaschke said:
I use a pyro-metol developer which requires constant agitation, one sheet at a time. I experienced overdeveloped edges from the get-go, so switched to trays one size bigger than my film (12x15 for 8x10 film) which resolved the issue. It is a very inefficient developer to film ratio, but I like my results so much I guess I’m stuck with it! In your case, a 5x7 tray with hc110 should not be unreasonably expensive. You can also, after some experience, try the shuffle method with multiple sheets and the cost goes down again.

It's very important to soak your sheet film in a water bath the same temperature as your developer for about a minute prior to development. This permits the film to swell and saturate itself. This will prevent overdeveloped edges. I do it for roll film in a tank as well. Placing film directly into developer permits over development of the highlights. Think of a sheet of film as a sponge. It absorbs the developer and works too quickly on the highlight areas. the pre-bath of water will yield more consistent development.

Alan9940 · Apr 21, 2019

Gary Gruber said:
It's very important to soak your sheet film in a water bath the same temperature as your developer for about a minute prior to development.

With tray development of sheet film, I'd recommend a minimum of 3 mins water pre-soak. Also, make sure you introduce each sheet individually into the water and ensure it's fully submerged before adding the next sheet to avoid sheets sticking together. Once all the sheets are in the water, start the timer, and agitate as you would in subsequent steps.

silveror0 · Apr 21, 2019

Gary Gruber said:
It's very important to soak your sheet film in a water bath the same temperature as your developer for about a minute prior to development...

Both good points, Gary & Alan. Both of which I forgot to mention in my above post. I pre-soaked for 2 minutes in those tests. Longer pre-soaks do no harm, as the time is not critical, as long as the anti-halation layer is completely removed. I've often wondered if the layer is only partially removed if that might produce the effect of uneven development.

Alan Barton · Apr 21, 2019

With energetic developers such as Pyro based systems it is easy to end up with uneven development if agitation is too vigorous (especially obvious in skies). I develop 4 sheets 8x10 in 3 liters of Pyrocat HD in an 11x14 tray. After a 2-3 minutes water soak they go into the developer. I shuffle one sheet every 20-30 seconds. Rotate the orientation of the film in the tray every 3 minutes by 90 degrees.

Bill Burk · Apr 21, 2019

If you stack your film in trays do not put them emulsion-to emulsion by mistake. I did this once and the local developer exhaustion caused one picture to show up as a ghost image on the next one.

To be fair, it was a sensitometry exposure with areas of extreme overexposure that transferred. But it is real. You can get ghosts.

KN4SMF · Apr 22, 2019

Developing 1 at a time in a tray is obviously the best way. Stacking and shuffling invites disaster. What i do is use a tray for 8 x 10 and divide it in half with a barrier made of clear box tape. then i cut a few slots in that barier with an exacto knofe so the chemical can flow through from one "compartment" to the other. And develop 2 at the time. Tilt towards you, then to the left, then the right at a steady slow pace, and repeat, the whole time and it works fine.

Peter Schrager · Apr 22, 2019

any method works as long as you make it yours and do it the same every time. I can do up 10 4x5 or others in a tray at one time.
learn to develop by inspection and it all becomes moot

Alan9940 · Apr 22, 2019

KN4SMF said:
Developing 1 at a time in a tray is obviously the best way.

Not the best way for me. I tried it a few times with both 4x5 and 8x10 film and was never able to achieve even development.

Hatchetman · Apr 22, 2019

My only advice is to use a pre-soak water tray first so you can get the shuffling practiced without risk. Also will prevent any sticking of sheets that may arise in the developer.

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