Sheen of FB Vs RC

CMoore · Oct 30, 2017

I am use to and like the look of Ilford/Arista Pearl paper.
If i buy Fiber Base......what sheen would give a Similar/Approximate look.?
That is to say, if i like RC Pearl, would i buy FB Pearl or should i get a higher sheen.?
This will be my first venture into Fiber.
Thank You

btaylor · Oct 31, 2017

I would try air dried fiber base glossy first.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 31, 2017

btaylor said:
I would try air dried fiber base glossy first.

+1

BMbikerider · Oct 31, 2017

Yes, agreed with the above.

The finish from the glossy paper does not come from the paper, it is when it is heat dried in close contact on a glazing machine. Or air dried on a sheet of plate (float) glass. Getting the gloss on a glazing plate or glass is a true art and when it is done properly there is nothing on this earth to compare with the gloss. Resin coated does not come anywhere near it!

But left unglazed the texture of the paper surface gives the image a certain unique finish, unlike anything else except another unglazed fibre based paper. It truly sparkles.

Ian Grant · Oct 31, 2017

You don't need a glazing machine to increase the gloss although that can potentially give you the highest gloss. You can steam a print to increase the gloss this can improve an air dried finish with out getting to the glazed look which has gone out of fashion and use.

Ian

CMoore · Oct 31, 2017

OK...Thanks For The Replys.
I think i am a bit confused by the procedure of "Air Dried".
Are you guys talking about using some sort of forced air...like from a hair drier.?
Thank You

Doremus Scudder · Oct 31, 2017

I dry fiber-base prints face-up on screens. No fan, no forced air, etc. It takes some hours. That, or something similar, is what is usually meant by "air-dried." I suppose one could speed up the process with a filtered airflow of some kind too, but in my experience, the faster FB prints dry, the more curl.

As noted above, air-dried glossy FB paper ends up with a finish very close to RC pearl. In order to get the real, shiny, glossy finish, you need to ferrotype FB gloss paper (drying with the emulsion side brayed to a ferrotype plate or glass). This produces a very glossy finish similar to RC glossy paper. The practice has fallen out of fashion and many, myself included, don't like the very glossy finish.

Best,

Doremus

tezzasmall · Oct 31, 2017

The way I dry the occasional FB prints, is to peg TWO of them back to back by the top corner and leave them to hang somewhere clean and still (like the bathroom) to dry slowly.

This I think you will find is a common and easy way of doing it.

Terry S

winger · Oct 31, 2017

Doremus Scudder said:
I dry fiber-base prints face-up on screens. No fan, no forced air, etc. It takes some hours. That, or something similar, is what is usually meant by "air-dried." I suppose one could speed up the process with a filtered airflow of some kind too, but in my experience, the faster FB prints dry, the more curl.

As noted above, air-dried glossy FB paper ends up with a finish very close to RC pearl. In order to get the real, shiny, glossy finish, you need to ferrotype FB gloss paper (drying with the emulsion side brayed to a ferrotype plate or glass). This produces a very glossy finish similar to RC glossy paper. The practice has fallen out of fashion and many, myself included, don't like the very glossy finish.

Best,

Doremus

Exactly this answer. And Ilford FB glossy is what I usually use (and the RC pearl for contact sheets and quick work prints).

CMoore · Oct 31, 2017

OK...Thanks Again

Sal Santamaura · Oct 31, 2017

CMoore said:
I am use to and like the look of Ilford/Arista Pearl paper.
If i buy Fiber Base......what sheen would give a Similar/Approximate look.?...

I'm not aware of any that would.

There was a time when an extraordinary range of fiber-base (FB) papers/surfaces was manufactured. Those days are long gone. Today, air-drying FB papers called "glossy" results in a degree of shine that's far greater than what one could obtain in the past, and which makes viewing under anything except tightly controlled lighting conditions reflection-plagued. The only one that differs, in my experience, is Ilford Cooltone FB. It is even glossier. All of them are far too shiny for my taste, and not close to an RC pearl surface. Reportedly, manufacturers are down to a single source (Schoeller) of baryta-coated paper base, which might explain why the sensitized products are all so similar. It seems the only manufacturing gloss control is via final top coat over the emulsion, and, given how uniform results are throughout the industry, that control might be very limited.

Today's "matte" and "semi-matte" FB papers avoid the (in my opinion) excessive shine. However, they also avoid a little thing called "black." Maximum density on those papers is more like dark gray.

Good luck with your search.

CMoore · Oct 31, 2017

Hey Sal -
I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are in "Disagreement" with what some of the other members have said.?
It sounds like they are saying..... if i just let the "Gloss" paper dry in the ambient air, that It Will Produce a sheen that is similar to Ilford Pearl.
Is that not your experience as well.?
Thanks

tedr1 · Oct 31, 2017

I use Ilford RC pearl and FB glossy air-dried (very few people glaze FB paper anymore, the high gloss surface produced by glazing is what RC glossy resembles, a mirror-like gloss).
Unfortunately Ilford seem to have discontinued their paper sample swatch, it includes samples of all the recent papers.
Paper surface is a matter of personal preference. Can you justify the purchase of a couple of small packs of different papers to try them for yourself?

CMoore · Oct 31, 2017

That is a good idea, but i think i will go with a 100 pack of Ilford Gloss FB Multi Contrast.
Sounds like if i just let it drip-dry, i will like the way it looks.

Patrick Robert James · Oct 31, 2017

There were some really nice papers that were semi matte back in the day. Luminos had a nice one. Kentmere had two. I think Oriental did as well. The venerable Agfa 118 was also great. None of them are made anymore.

Bergger lists some papers as semi-matte or semi-gloss. I don't have any experience with those but maybe someone else can tell you what they are. Adox has the 112 surface and Foma has their "velvet" surface. Again, no experience with those either (that I can remember). You can get them through Freestyle since you are in Ca. If I am not mistaken, Slavich also has one, but it is graded and hard to find in the US.

I think that is what you are asking. Hope that helps.

Sal Santamaura · Oct 31, 2017

CMoore said:
...It sounds like they are saying..... if i just let the "Gloss" paper dry in the ambient air, that It Will Produce a sheen that is similar to Ilford Pearl.
Is that not your experience as well.?
Thanks

That is not my experience with currently available air-dried glossy FB papers from Ilford and Adox. They and that drying method are what my above comments were based on.

I haven't tried Foma but, given reports that it too must rely on Schoeller for baryta-coated paper stock, wouldn't expect anything different from its FB offerings.

You're welcome.

CMoore · Oct 31, 2017

OK...10-4.

Sirius Glass · Oct 31, 2017

btaylor said:
I would try air dried fiber base glossy first.

RalphLambrecht said:
+1

BMbikerider said:
Yes, agreed with the above.

The finish from the glossy paper does not come from the paper, it is when it is heat dried in close contact on a glazing machine. Or air dried on a sheet of plate (float) glass. Getting the gloss on a glazing plate or glass is a true art and when it is done properly there is nothing on this earth to compare with the gloss. Resin coated does not come anywhere near it!

But left unglazed the texture of the paper surface gives the image a certain unique finish, unlike anything else except another unglazed fibre based paper. It truly sparkles.

I prefer fiber glossy paper for most finished work. Sometimes I use RC paper for proofs.

voceumana · Nov 1, 2017

When I've used fiber based glossy papers, I've used electric photo print dryers with the image placed towards the canvas. It doesn't give ferrotype smoothness (like RC glossy paper has) but provides a high lustre finish on many papers that is quite nice. Agfa Multi-Contrast Classic, in particular, had a beautiful finish when dried this way. Alas, it is no longer made.

kreeger · Nov 3, 2017

The following image below was printed on double weight, fiber base Ilford Multigrade Classic, selenium toned and air-dried, on window screens as described by others here, for reference. In the edges of the shiny area, it's fairly representative of what that paper looks like, for comparison with pearl.

I find the sheen of this specific paper to be much more brilliant than most of the other FB-DW papers I have printed with.

CMoore · Nov 3, 2017

Thanks for that effort.....and a beautiful frame BTW.
For better or worse, i ordered a 100 pack of the Ilford Gloss.
Eventually, we all simply have to "Buy & Try"....and see what we like.
Thanks Again

mnemosyne · Nov 5, 2017

Foma's Fomatone 532-II matte has a surface finish that I find to be very close to Ilfords RC pearl surface when air dried. However it's a warmtone paper on a off-white non baryta fiber base, which may not be what you are looking for. The typical finish of air dried glossy FB paper is beautiful, but IMHO quite different from RC pearl (the other Foma "matte" FB papers (Fomabrom, Fomatone MG classic) I have tried are quite different from the 532 and I would describe them as dull aka dead matte)

Sheen of FB Vs RC

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