Several Questions please....

dwdmguy · Feb 11, 2009

Good Day.

I'd love a RF.

I'd love a Leica M6 but I just can't afford the glass. It's a killer.

I was wondering about the Volt R3 and thinking that would be of benefit me for a walking around every day Camera.

Or, Nikon RF which I have Nikon SLR older manual lenses but I don't know if they fit a Nikon RF?

Can you please tell me if the Nikon RF's can use the SLR lenses? If so, any models that stand out? With a Meter?

If not, what do you think about the R3M's?

Thanks tons.
Tom

elekm · Feb 11, 2009

The lenses for the Nikon SLR and RF aren't interchangeable. (You probably could get some custom adapter, but to use an SLR lens on a RF body would require some type of lens element that would probably degrade the image.)

I think you mean the Cosina Voigtlander Bessa series, rather than a Volt. Good cameras. Make sure the rangefinder is working properly and isn't out horizontally or vertically. The lenses for this series of cameras are very good.

Some people are using Bessa bodies and Leica lenses. In fact, the lens has more to do with the photo than the body. So you could try this route.

Others are using Leica bodies and Voigtlander lenses.

The Zeiss Ikon rangefinder and Carl Zeiss lenses are priced between Voigtlander and Bessa.

Steve Bellayr · Feb 13, 2009

An alternative is the Canon P & Canon 50mm lens. It will be less than the Leicas or the Nikon rangefinder S2, which as been steadily rising over the past year. The Canons certainly will meet you need but no meter. Finding a hood is problematic.

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Feb 16, 2009

elekm said:
The lenses for the Nikon SLR and RF aren't interchangeable. (You probably could get some custom adapter, but to use an SLR lens on a RF body would require some type of lens element that would probably degrade the image.)

Nikon SLR's have a larger Film to Flange distance than Nikon RF's, so it wouldn't require a lens element. You'd just engineer the adapter to make up that difference. You can use SLR lenses on Leica bodies in exactly this way, but of course you don't have rangefinder coupling, so you have to guess the focus. Works OK for wide angle lenses, I understand. But, that's a bit off topic - so far as general functionality and ease of management, SLR and RF lenses aren't interchangeable, and I'm not sure such an adapter even exists for the Nikon RF's...so I'm just rambling.

Moving on, I use a Voigtlander Bessa R2A, but I'd love an R3M. I firmly believe that if you buy from a reputable dealer, you should have no problems with a Bessa. The main thing people seem to worry about is rangefinder being off, but a half-decent dealer will take care of you IF this happens. I dropped mine on a timber floor, dinged my lens up really nicely, but the RF was still perfect. I don't worry about it.
A Bessa will also give you the options of an range of lenses spanning the majority of the past century, with the use of an M to Screw mount adapter. I love it to bits, see my experience here.

Anscojohn · Feb 16, 2009

dwdmguy said:
Good Day.

Or, Nikon RF which I have Nikon SLR older manual lenses but I don't know if they fit a Nikon RF?
******
No, not really. I think they made a Contax/Nikon RF to SLR adapter, but it was suitable only for close-up work. You could make a lash-up with a Nikon F to LTM adapter; then LTM to M adapter; but it would not couple to the RF.

There are, of course, lots of LTM lenses you can adapt to the M body, though.

nemo999 · Feb 16, 2009

dwdmguy said:
Good Day.

I'd love a RF.

I'd love a Leica M6 but I just can't afford the glass. It's a killer.

I was wondering about the Volt R3 and thinking that would be of benefit me for a walking around every day Camera.

Or, Nikon RF which I have Nikon SLR older manual lenses but I don't know if they fit a Nikon RF?

Can you please tell me if the Nikon RF's can use the SLR lenses? If so, any models that stand out? With a Meter?

If not, what do you think about the R3M's?

Thanks tons.
Tom

Agree with most of above, except that a Nikon SLR lens to Leica RF body adapter does not need any correction lens in it. I have one (Novoflex) that fits Leica screw thread bodies (it does not fit Leica M bodies, even with an adapter, because it fouls the lens release button).

If you have numerous Nikon SLR lenses and want to use only these, the cheapest option for you would be a Voigtländer Bessa L body plus a lens adapter, slip-on viewfinder and slip-on rangefinder. This would mean you would have to transfer focus settings manually from the rangefinder to the lens.

If you're going to buy a camera and lenses, a screw-thread Leica (IIIc, IIIf) or M2 would be cheaper than an M6 and, as others have said, you can then use any of the new Voigtländer screw-thread lenses (with rangefinder coupling). You might find that one body and one lens (35 or 50 mm) was all you needed.

Forget Nikon RFs, they date from the 1950s and are quite rare and expensive - one model was re-issued (S3) recently and was very expensive. No Nikon RF with a built-in meter, as far as I know. Many people use Voigtländer RF cameras, they're good but not as robust (rangefinder mechanism) as Leicas.

Chaplain Jeff · Feb 16, 2009

Anscojohn said:
dwdmguy said:

...
There are, of course, lots of LTM lenses you can adapt to the M body, though.

Click to expand...

Hello,

That would be my suggestion as well - start out with LTM lenses, which are much less expensive than M lenses.

Good luck!

dwdmguy · Feb 16, 2009

This is some awesome information. Thanks so much guys... I'll post what I'll do soon. I think I like the Bessa option.

So, does the Bessa come with the M mount if I can afford M lenses later or do I have to have my dealer do it?

Thanks again tons.
Tom

dwdmguy · Feb 16, 2009

Fleath, that's some great site you have there. I'll look forward reading it today.
Post more!!!!
Thanks
Tom

kavandje · Feb 16, 2009

I'm one of those people with a Leica body and Voigtländer glass. I'm shooting with a Leica MP and a Voigtländer Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4, with which I'm extremely pleased. Good all-rounder. Perhaps not as sharp/swirly-bokeh/10-brazilian-lines-per-mm/whatever as the equivalent Solms glass, but for 1/10 of the price, awesome value.

nemo999 · Feb 16, 2009

dwdmguy said:
This is some awesome information. Thanks so much guys... I'll post what I'll do soon. I think I like the Bessa option.

So, does the Bessa come with the M mount if I can afford M lenses later or do I have to have my dealer do it?

Thanks again tons.
Tom

Here's a quick run-down on Voigtländers:
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/products.asp?PT_ID=290
The Bessa L I mentioned earlier (and the Bessa R) is LTM (Leica thread mount or Leica screw or M39) - it is available ludicrously cheaply secondhand and has a meter in it. All LTM lenses convert to Leica M (bayonet) with a simple and inexpensive adapter.

More here:
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Bessa_(35mm)

Chazzy · Feb 16, 2009

kavandje said:
I'm one of those people with a Leica body and Voigtländer glass. I'm shooting with a Leica MP and a Voigtländer Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4, with which I'm extremely pleased. Good all-rounder. Perhaps not as sharp/swirly-bokeh/10-brazilian-lines-per-mm/whatever as the equivalent Solms glass, but for 1/10 of the price, awesome value.

I'd love to see photos.

kavandje · Feb 16, 2009

I'd love to see photos.

OK, here ya go:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kavandje/tags/voigtl%C3%A4ndernoktonclassic35mmf14/

I use it mostly for candids and such, so no apologies for subject matter.

Chazzy · Feb 16, 2009

kavandje said:
OK, here ya go:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kavandje/tags/voigtl%C3%A4ndernoktonclassic35mmf14/

I use it mostly for candids and such, so no apologies for subject matter.

No apologies necessaryI tend to use 35mm for the same subject matter. I sometimes ask myself whether a Summilux or the Canon 35mm/f1.4 ought to be my dream lensbut then my next thought is always whether I would see the difference in normal, hand-held use at reasonable print sizes (it would never occur to me to print 35mm at sizes larger than 8x10).

kavandje · Feb 16, 2009

I sometimes ask myself whether a Summilux or the Canon 35mm/f1.4 ought to be my dream lens ...

Well, add the Voigtländer to your catalogue of contemplation -- it really is quite a nice lens....

elekm · Feb 16, 2009

I shot with the Pancake 35mm for a while. It's a very nice lens. Excellent build quality and great photos. If you're on a budget, I'd pick a new Cosina Voigtlander lens over a 50-year-old Canon thing any day.

Chaplain Jeff · Feb 17, 2009

dwdmguy said:
This is some awesome information. Thanks so much guys... I'll post what I'll do soon. I think I like the Bessa option.

So, does the Bessa come with the M mount if I can afford M lenses later or do I have to have my dealer do it?

Thanks again tons.
Tom

Voightlander has a variety of bodies out at this time - and some discontinued you can still buy. If you eventually want M glass, make sure you buy a body that has an M mount. You can always use an adapter with LTM lenses, but you cannot use M mount lenses on an LTM body.

stealthman_1 · Feb 17, 2009

A used Leica M6 can be had for just a bit more than a new Bessa RF ($950 vs. $600+). I much prefer the M6 to my Bessa R3M primarily because the RF patch is better, though there is nothing wrong with the Bessa (and it can shoot 1/2000). If I were in your situation, I'd go the M6 with CV, Leica Thread Mount, or Zeiss glass. I have to CV lenses (12mm f5.6 and 35 f1.2) and I'm quite happy with them.
A good Nikon RF and good Nikon RF glass ain't exactly cheap. At least on the S2, the VF patch pretty much sucks after using a modern RF. I still love my S2 though.

Chaplain Jeff · Feb 17, 2009

kavandje said:
I'm one of those people with a Leica body and Voigtländer glass. I'm shooting with a Leica MP and a Voigtländer Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4, with which I'm extremely pleased. Good all-rounder. Perhaps not as sharp/swirly-bokeh/10-brazilian-lines-per-mm/whatever as the equivalent Solms glass, but for 1/10 of the price, awesome value.

Another suggestion if you really want a Leica M body now, is to consider some of their less expensive lenses as your initial purchase. The 90mm, f/4 Leica (forget the nomenclature and mine are half a world away at the moment) can be had for under $100 in excellent condition.

Along with the Voightlander option - which is a Cosina made system that has no connection to the original German company except that they purchased rights to the name - are Rokkor (Minolta lenses). These lenses were madein collaboration with Leica. The 40mm Summicron and it's "twin cousin" Rokkor M are very affordable and very good lenses. The Rokkor (Minolta) 28mm lens without bubbles is not cheap, but still sells for about 1/5 the price of its German cousin.

The great thing about buying Rokkor-M (Minolta) lenses is that they were made in collaboration with Leica, so they're not just Leica mount lenses, but were in part designed by the company in a team effort. How much or how little is up for speculation of course. Someone who has the information may be able to provide more precise information, but if memory serves correctly, the CL lenses were actually made in Japan by Minolta for Leica - and the later CLE era lenses were exact copies of these, with multi-coating on the lenses instead of the single coating on the CL series.

Good investments and great shooters. They'll never be worth what a Leica is worth and many will tell you they don't shoot like one either, but they also don't cost as much - and so work on the M bodies.

Andy K · Feb 17, 2009

If you already have a Nikon RF then it is worth noting that, until recently, Cosina Voigtlander were making Nikon and Contax RF fit lenses. Which means you may still be able to find lenses in stock somewhere:

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=1920&PT_ID=458

dwdmguy · Feb 18, 2009

Kava, those pictures are wonderful. That camera seems like a great tool. But I've always known it's the eye and mind behind the viewer that makes the pictures.
Today I went to a Auth Leica dealer here in NJ. I am trying the M6 for a week, with the 50mm f/2 and a zeiss f/2, I simply would not be able to affod the 35mm ASPH.
As soon as I picked up the body and knew I was a dead man. What the heck is that power thats in their bodies to make one feel like that?

I mean the camera fit's so perfectly in one's hands, feels so natural in front of my eye. Holy cow, it really is amazing. This will be my last camera purchase for a very long time so I wanted to make sure it's the right one. I'm actually selling my new D700 to finance this move, which ever way it goes.

Thanks so much for taking the time and sharing your thoughts. Very greatful.
Tom

kavandje · Feb 19, 2009

What the heck is that power thats in their bodies to make one feel like that?

I've wondered this myself. One thought of mine is that the fewer 'features' a camera is saddled with, the more it stimulates the photographer.

I've noticed the same thing happening holding a good TLR (be it a Yashicamat or a Rolleiflex), a good MF SLR (be it a Hasselblad or a Rolleiflex SL66), or a good 35mm SLR (be it an Olympus OM-1, a Canon A-1 or a Nikon F-3): the more the camera gets out of my way, and the more it is reduced to its essential functions, the harder I work; and the harder I work, the better my chances of having good results to show for it.

I have no doubt at all that the new Zeiss Ikon and Voigtländer RFs, and the older Nikon and Canon RFs, are fine cameras capable of extraordinary results. But I did notice that if a Leica sinks its teeth under your skin, to mix a metaphor, it does not readily let go.

dwdmguy · Feb 19, 2009

kavandje said:
I've wondered this myself. One thought of mine is that the fewer 'features' a camera is saddled with, the more it stimulates the photographer.
.

I think that's the best description and one that I feel is true in my case. What's odd is that after many years of shooting digital I've found that the better the digi camera body got, the less I was excited and even, perhaps, I was taking not the pictures I was certianly up to. I found this recently with the Nikon D700. A marvel for sure but it was just too clean and sharp. I consider my going back to film, in fact, not going back but moving forward. Never before have I had such a desire to return to school, at age 48, for my degree in photography.
Thanks

keithwms · Feb 19, 2009

Tom, how inclined are you to switch lenses? If not so inclined, something like a konica AF may be nice for your purposes, the lens is absolutely superb and it's a very nice, robust piece for walkaround / travel. Should run you around $400, well worth the lens itself.

Now, if you want a true take-everywhere walkaround then a good old oly xa is a great pocket camera.... and it's well within anybody's budget

Several Questions please....

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