Servicing/replacing parts on electronic-film cameras.

analoguey · Jul 25, 2014

Where do you get your F5, F4 or Canon1n/v or other equivalent cameras which have significant electronic input serviced?

I know from asking Nikon service here that they only service digital, not even the professional Film SLRs(at least in my city).

So, if one had to get those F5s serviced, where would you go? (non-US based owners, especially)

I'm presuming that with existing MF manufacturers like Mamiya or Hasselblad, the service is via their distributors.

(got prompted by the 'going out of film photography' thread elsewhere)

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trythis · Jul 25, 2014

I have been wondering about equipment longevity as a whole. Since manufacturing film cameras is limited to Lomography inc. How much longer do we have to use our equipment? These things (nikon, hassleblad, lieca, canon) will all eventually fail permanently. What will we stick film in? We will all be shooting Holgas I guess.

analoguey · Jul 25, 2014

Well, mechanical cameras, one could use or repair with old tools - or find a service manual and fashion a part.
I'm wondering about the electronic ones, as technology there has changed exponentially

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Charles Wass · Jul 26, 2014

If by "serviced" you mean repaired, isn't the answer to replace the camera? As a Canon user I am aware that even in Europe, where second hand prices are higher than the US, the EOS 1n/v are relatively cheap when compared with repair costs. I cannot comment on Nikon prices.
For my own part I avoid those electronic models and use the earlier and more reliable mechanical ones.

pentaxuser · Jul 26, 2014

I noted your comment on Jaf-Photo's farewell thread and if the camera you have been offered is working currently and is at a real bargain price then the savings might pay for service/repair. Depending on how much of a bargain you have found I'd go for it.

I cannot help with repairers in India, only the U.K. but a company called Newton and Ellis has a great reputation for successfully undertaking repairs on all makes of cameras. It is based in Liverpool, England. Goggle them and check out if they will post back overseas. I see no reason why they won't.

If you have a F5 or F100 in mind these are recently made cameras and I haven't heard any rumours that parts cannot be obtained.

Of course if the camera works OK you may never need Newton and Ellis at all.

pentaxuser

Xmas · Jul 26, 2014

analoguey said:
Well, mechanical cameras, one could use or repair with old tools - or find a service manual and fashion a part.
I'm wondering about the electronic ones, as technology there has changed exponentially

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Last weeks problem was an OM2n with a interlock fault.

Previous user had used force on release button and broken the interlock part so needed part from a parts camera too difficult to fabricate.
Then I needed to bodge the wind on stop the original fault... nail lacquer to secure the stop.
Need to find small 'o'ring for more reliable fix.

Noel

Kirks518 · Jul 26, 2014

I can't help for outside the US, but here I would look towards KEH or C.R.I.S. in Chandler, Arizona.

Henning Serger · Jul 26, 2014

analoguey said:
So, if one had to get those F5s serviced, where would you go? (non-US based owners, especially)

Here in Germany (which is like a 'paradise' for film shooters compared to most other countries worldwide) it is not a problem at all.
Several repair companies offer service for Nikon cameras, both mechanical and electronic ones.
Parts are not a problem so far.
I've discussed the parts topic with my local repair company (they have been repairing Nikons for more than 30 years) just recently.
And they told me if they run out of parts in the future they just use broken camera bodys as parts dispensers. They don't worry.
And, very important:
So far electronic cameras have proven that they are really robust and good for long term use. Look at the first electronic camera generation: E.g. Canon AE-1, Minolta XD-7, Pentax ME, Nikon FE, Nikon F3: They are 30 - 38 years old, and most of them are still running.
I've never had an electronic failure with my cameras.
And only twice I had mechanical failures (which were repaired).

Best regards,
Henning

bobotea · Jul 28, 2014

Ideally once 3D printers become more prevalent in households people can manufacture and replace old broken parts, maybe a pipe dream though...

analoguey · Jul 28, 2014

pentaxuser said:
I noted your comment on Jaf-Photo's farewell thread and if the camera you have been offered is working currently and is at a real bargain price then the savings might pay for service/repair. Depending on how much of a bargain you have found I'd go for it.

I cannot help with repairers in India, only the U.K. but a company called Newton and Ellis has a great reputation for successfully undertaking repairs on all makes of cameras. It is based in Liverpool, England. Goggle them and check out if they will post back overseas. I see no reason why they won't.

If you have a F5 or F100 in mind these are recently made cameras and I haven't heard any rumours that parts cannot be obtained.

Of course if the camera works OK you may never need Newton and Ellis at all.

pentaxuser

I am currently running with only Mechanical ones(RB, Toyo an FG), but the F5 has that magnetic allure - especially since a friend loaned me one. I have been thinking that the next time I go on a longish (2weeks+) trip, having one might be just the right ticket.

I was also wondering about backup in case of failures - whether the camera needs to replaced, given the electronics get obsolete quite fast - the chips, the buses, connectors etc.,

Henning Serger said:
Here in Germany (which is like a 'paradise' for film shooters compared to most other countries worldwide) it is not a problem at all.
Several repair companies offer service for Nikon cameras, both mechanical and electronic ones.Parts are not a problem so far.
I've discussed the parts topic with my local repair company (they have been repairing Nikons for more than 30 years) just recently.
And they told me if they run out of parts in the future they just use broken camera bodys as parts dispensers. They don't worry.
And, very important:
So far electronic cameras have proven that they are really robust and good for long term use. Look at the first electronic camera generation: E.g. Canon AE-1, Minolta XD-7, Pentax ME, Nikon FE, Nikon F3: They are 30 - 38 years old, and most of them are still running.
I've never had an electronic failure with my cameras.
And only twice I had mechanical failures (which were repaired).

Best regards,
Henning

Good to know that there isnt a shortage of parts! I would worry if parts had to be cannibalised.
But from what I understand those are electro-mechanical cameras, can work even without batteries? Whereas an F5/100 or such wouldnt - my question was more from that angle of fully electronic ones.

I have had shutter and film rewinding issues sorted out for mechanical cameras locally - when I was getting my digital Nikon serviced, I also happened to ask them about the film ones - and have been wondering since whether any fully electronic ones are reparied or junked.

analoguey · Jul 28, 2014

Charles Wass said:
If by "serviced" you mean repaired, isn't the answer to replace the camera? As a Canon user I am aware that even in Europe, where second hand prices are higher than the US, the EOS 1n/v are relatively cheap when compared with repair costs. I cannot comment on Nikon prices.
For my own part I avoid those electronic models and use the earlier and more reliable mechanical ones.

Yes, repaired - I was supposing that service center would also repair the camera as well. Not a big fan of junking them away, so I was checking to see if there other options - for a future purchase of something like an F5.

bobotea said:
Ideally once 3D printers become more prevalent in households people can manufacture and replace old broken parts, maybe a pipe dream though...

This only works if all the designs are (going to be) available open source or for a price - chances are, most wont be!

Poisson Du Jour · Jul 28, 2014

analoguey said:
Where do you get your F5, F4 or Canon1n/v or other equivalent cameras which have significant electronic input serviced?

I know from asking Nikon service here that they only service digital, not even the professional Film SLRs(at least in my city).

So, if one had to get those F5s serviced, where would you go? (non-US based owners, especially)

I'm presuming that with existing MF manufacturers like Mamiya or Hasselblad, the service is via their distributors.

(got prompted by the 'going out of film photography' thread elsewhere)

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You pose some interesting questions. My 1N has never been serviced and has been in continuous use since May or June 1994 when it was purchased new. I've known friends with 1V bodies with similar stories of stoic reliability.

However, an EOS 5 in use from 1995 to 2009 went in for many repairs during its service life (mode control dial, broken rear cover latch, broken lens release latch); I decommissioned it in frustration around 2009-2010 (it's in bits on the shelf behind me...).

Where electronic service of these cameras is required, I don't perceive it to be a problem, though occasionally parts would be taken from a stock of disused 'parts' bodies (similar to servicing Pentax 67 and older MF bodies). It is very disappointing that Nikon does not service film bodies. But like all the rest of them, they follow the path of least resistance to profits. And there's no profit in cobbling broken down film cameras.

analoguey · Aug 9, 2014

Hmm, but seeing that the designs are quite similar to the current digitals, excepting the digital sensor bits, I would have thought Nikon would still have those parts around.
The LCD display, the knobs n buttons for the most part, I mean.
Wonder what they do about a Nikon F6.(stil listed on the website as for sale, with price)

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Xmas · Aug 10, 2014

A Leica M or Barnack or clone when all mechanical is easy to repair, they are very simple.

A electro magnet, galvanometer or LCD or printed circuit nigh impossible without cannibalism.

Many cameras are not modular and will take time to strip and rebuild.

Service person time is very expensive. They are not being trained as digital and mobiles are trashed when battery fails or upgrade.

Today with high volume cameras in trash cans and charity shops or from people still going digital, spares or functional replacements are easy.

Tomorrow more difficult.

An example is the Pentax K1000 differential galvanometer as camera production was only stopped when galvanometer supply became too difficult.

Henning Serger · Aug 10, 2014

analoguey said:
Wonder what they do about a Nikon F6.(stil listed on the website as for sale, with price)

The Nikon F6 is still in production. It is built in Nikon's Sendai plant, where all their professional cameras are built.
This plant has a production structure designed for very small production runs. That is necessary because their top DSLRs like the D4 are also built in very low volumes (because of the extremely high price). E.g. from the D2H only 7,000 cameras were built.
So far about 35,000 Nikon F6 have been built since its introduction in 2004.
I am using one with the MB-40 and MV-1 for several years now. I bought it all new.
An amazing camera. The best 35mm SLR ever built.
I can highly recommend it.

Best regards,
Henning

analoguey · Aug 10, 2014

Xmas said:
A Leica M or Barnack or clone when all mechanical is easy to repair, they are very simple.

A electro magnet, galvanometer or LCD or printed circuit nigh impossible without cannibalism.

Many cameras are not modular and will take time to strip and rebuild.

An example is the Pentax K1000 differential galvanometer as camera production was only stopped when galvanometer supply became too difficult.

That, pretty much, is why I asked the question.
With my brief experience with PCBs, and wafers(in college, couple of years), I pretty much decided that they're not much fun to use or try out with the hand, and machine printed ones are best.

Of course, now whole motherboards are fabricated easy n fast.(new designs apparently take less than 2 weeks to fruition)

But the Nikons are modular - as perhaps the Minoltas/Sonys(??) or Canons?

What would a Mamiya AFD owner do, I wonder.

Henning Serger said:
The Nikon F6 is still in production. It is built in Nikon's Sendai plant, where all their professional cameras are built.
This plant has a production structure designed for very small production runs. That is necessary because their top DSLRs like the D4 are also built in very low volumes (because of the extremely high price). E.g. from the D2H only 7,000 cameras were built.
So far about 35,000 Nikon F6 have been built since its introduction in 2004.
I am using one with the MB-40 and MV-1 for several years now. I bought it all new.
An amazing camera. The best 35mm SLR ever built.
I can highly recommend it.

Best regards,
Henning

Thanks for that info, Henning! I read up a bit recently on the F6, and it sounds like a really good camera to own, use. What has Nikon told you on its serviceability then?

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Henning Serger · Aug 10, 2014

analoguey said:
Thanks for that info, Henning! I read up a bit recently on the F6, and it sounds like a really good camera to own, use. What has Nikon told you on its serviceability then?

No problems at all, full service is offered.
So far Nikon's service policy has been to offer spare parts for at least tens years after production of a camera has stopped.
But in most cases much more spare parts have beeen produced (in relation to produced spare parts the cameras have been more reliable as expected) .
Therefore e.g. you can get still parts for the F2, F3, F4, FM etc. despite the fact their production stop was 20-40 years ago.

The F6 so far has proved to be a very robust and reliable camera.
I remember a talk two years ago with my local Nikon repair expert. He's repairing Nikons for about 40 years.
And he had never to repair a Nikon F6, not even a single one.

Best regards,
Henning

Xmas · Aug 10, 2014

Henning Serger said:
No problems at all, full service is offered.
So far Nikon's service policy has been to offer spare parts for at least tens years after production of a camera has stopped.
But in most cases much more spare parts have beeen produced (in relation to produced spare parts the cameras have been more reliable as expected) .
Therefore e.g. you can get still parts for the F2, F3, F4, FM etc. despite the fact their production stop was 20-40 years ago.

The F6 so far has proved to be a very robust and reliable camera.
I remember a talk two years ago with my local Nikon repair expert. He's repairing Nikons for about 40 years.
And he had never to repair a Nikon F6, not even a single one.

Best regards,
Henning

May be but may be cheaper to trash/parts

http://soverf2repair.webs.com/Shutter_curtains.htm

Repair is not cheap.

wiltw · Aug 10, 2014

analoguey said:
Well, mechanical cameras, one could use or repair with old tools - or find a service manual and fashion a part.
I'm wondering about the electronic ones, as technology there has changed exponentially

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Mechanical cameras can often have parts manually (if expensively) fabricated. Once electronics fail -- even in those which expose film! -- you are hosed if you cannot find a parts camera to scavenge from!

Xmas · Aug 10, 2014

wiltw said:
Mechanical cameras can often have parts manually (if expensively) fabricated. Once electronics fail -- even in those which expose film! -- you are hosed if you cannot find a parts camera to scavenge from!

Not the rule set I use

- for a mechanical camera if I don't have a cannibal to hand turn it into into a cannibal.

- for an electronic fault turn it into cannibal, eg OM2n have many parts in common with OM1n

Additionally a parts camera is likely to have the same parts worn beyond salvage.

YMMV

I get a lot of repairable cameras in Ziploc bags.

Servicing/replacing parts on electronic-film cameras.

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