serious problems with few negatives

pmu · Feb 3, 2006

3 weeks ago I made a couple of changes in my development procedures; I bought xtol, hca and started to presoak my films. I used to rinse the negatives 30-35 min and now changed that because I bought hca; HCA + 10-15 minutes rinse with water. Today I saw something horrible -- in all of these negatives developed after these changes, had a weird greenish marks starting to appear all over the negatives (films are delta 3200, tmax 3200 and adox chm 400)! In some parts of the negative those marks appear as a "spots" in the middle of the picture and elsewhere as a larger "lumps" starting from the sides of the film. Dead Link Removed And yes, it is greenish... like mold. I checked and double checked, all of my older negatives are 100% fine. And the drying time after development is the same as always before...at least I haven't made any conscious changes in that department. Any idea what is the problem?

If it is mold - is there a way to stop it in these negatives?

Donald Miller · Feb 3, 2006

I rather doubt that you have a mold issue. I would more readily think that you have film that is improperly fixed or improperly washed.

pmu · Feb 3, 2006

Donald Miller said:
I rather doubt that you have a mold issue. I would more readily think that you have film that is improperly fixed or improperly washed.

I am 100% sure that the fixer was just fine... Like I said, after fixing I used HCA for about 3-4 minutes and 10-15 minutes rinse with running water.

timeUnit · Feb 3, 2006

Try to re-fix anyway. How long are you fixing and what fixer?

timeUnit · Feb 3, 2006

I use XTOL and Rodinal, I presoak, I use HCA and the Ilford washing method, and I see no stains or mould. I use CHM400, HP5+, Neopan 400 & 1600 etc. While I've had my share of bad results from developing, I have not seen these type of marks. Are the spots in the _emulsion_? They are lighter in the postive, so that means they are areas of higher density. That rules out air bubbles. The unfixed emulsion could definetely become or look green.

pmu · Feb 3, 2006

timeUnit said:
I use XTOL and Rodinal, I presoak, I use HCA and the Ilford washing method, and I see no stains or mould. I use CHM400, HP5+, Neopan 400 & 1600 etc. While I've had my share of bad results from developing, I have not seen these type of marks. Are the spots in the _emulsion_? They are lighter in the postive, so that means they are areas of higher density. That rules out air bubbles. The unfixed emulsion could definetely become or look green.

I used fresh tmax rs fixer -- 3-5 minutes says Kodak, but I have allways used 5-8 minutes. And I forgot to mention -- I have worked with these particular films about week or 2 weeks ago and then they were just as normal -- no greenish spots or lumps...

photomc · Feb 3, 2006

Really don't think it is the HCA....it is just Sodium Sulfite, with some additives for keeping purposes. Wonder if the green you describe is actually dichronic stain...that can look green in the right light. Which side is this on, the emulsion side or base side? Think I would go ahead and try to fix again or if it is dichronic stain a weak bath of Farmers has always cleared that up for me. Take a look at the developer, fix, hca and see if there is anything in it. That could give you a clue as well. Good Luck

pmu · Feb 3, 2006

photomc said:
Wonder if the green you describe is actually dichronic stain...that can look green in the right light. Which side is this on, the emulsion side or base side? Think I would go ahead and try to fix again or if it is dichronic stain a weak bath of Farmers has always cleared that up for me.

EDIT: No not on the emulsion side -- the base side! ..and now that you mentioned "the right light", I recalled that I saw this problem when I was prescanning these negatives with my flatbead scanner - that scanners light is the "right" light to see this problem. I haven't heard of this "dichronic stain" term before...maybe it is that. But does dichronic stains usually appear after few weeks after the development...?

My english isn't perfect so I think I will try to say this again as clear as possible: all of these negatives were developed about 3 weeks ago and I have scanned and printed these frames about 1-2 weeks ago -- then there were no this kind of problem, the negatives looked just fine.

Monophoto · Feb 3, 2006

Are you using photo flo or a similar solution as a final rinse? If so, what dilution?

If photoflo is not diluted enough, it can leave a film on the negative that can discolor over time. A good recommendation is to use about twice the amount of water recommended on the bottle - and always use either distilled or highly filtered water for the final rinse.

pmu · Feb 3, 2006

Monophoto said:
Are you using photo flo or a similar solution as a final rinse? If so, what dilution?

Yes, I used photo-flo. Dilution about 1:350. But, that bottle of photo-flo is actually very old...could that be "out-dated"?

Neil Miller · Feb 3, 2006

pmu said:
... I haven't heard of this "dichronic stain" term before...

I think it's 'dichroic' - if you google 'dichroic fog' you will get a few definitions. Basically it is a kind of stain or sheen that appears one colour in a certain light, and another colour in other light. It's main cause is chemical contamination or exhausted chemicals.

I don't think it's what you described - whenever I have seen it, it has the colour of something like oil or petrol on water, and spreads over the whole of the affected area. I haven't seen it in green localised spots before, but you never know!

Regards,
Neil.

Marco S. · Feb 3, 2006

Are you using filtered or distilled water to process the film? Are you keeping the wash temp. within a few degrees of the process temp? Just a few things to think about.

Marco

pmu · Feb 4, 2006

MPolo said:
Are you using filtered or distilled water to process the film? Are you keeping the wash temp. within a few degrees of the process temp? Just a few things to think about.

Marco

I use normal tapwater -- like always before. And also the washing temp is pretty close to the process temp...

When I earlier said that could it be the HCA causing this, I meant that if the HCA didn't work properly the washing time propably was too short (after hca, I washed 10-15 min in running water).... Maybe I just have to go back to my old dev.routine and do all over again...no hca, no presoak, no photo-flo, normal washing times etc. and try to figure what went wrong by doing these "new" steps only one / developed roll. Because the problem occurred after these changes --- the problem must be somehow connected to these changes...

serious problems with few negatives

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