sepia toning; thiocarbamide; need for hardener

[lensmagic]

When sepia toning using thiocarbamide is it necessary to use a hardener on the toned print?

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

Generally speaking: no.

But there might be some cases when hardening is useful. Why are you asking?

 

[Ian Grant]

No, never needed one. Definitelybdon't use a hardening fixer before toning this can lead to uneven toning.

Ian

 

[lensmagic]

Generally speaking: no.

But there might be some cases when hardening is useful. Why are you asking?

Generally speaking: no.

But there might be some cases when hardening is useful. Why are you asking?

I came across this recommendation in the Photographers Formulary site. The product is the Formulary kit for thiocarbamide toning:

FORMULARY THIOUREA TONER BLEACH AND REDEVELOPMENT

After Treatment

The sulfide-hydroxide toning hath will soften the emulsion of the print. Therefore, it is advisable to harden the print before it is dried. The chemicals for a hardening bath are not contained in this kit. Should you wish to prepare a hardening bath, use the following formula:

[website gives formula]

Harden the print for about 5 minutes in this bath then wash in running water for 30 minutes.

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

I have not used the particular product from the Photographers Formulary. But according to this sheet (https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/photoformulary_tech/Formulary Thiourea Toner [06-0045].pdf) it is essentially the same product as by Tetenal or as described in the Darkroom Cookbook.

If the paper has been hardened insufficiently by the manufacturer or the paper is very fresh, it can happen that the emulsion softens during processing. You will notice that the print (this is also valid for film) is kind of sticky on the emulsion side. In this case, it is useful to us a hardening bath before washing & drying. But according to my experience, this is not a problem particular to thiourea toning.

 

[Ian Grant]

Foma papers sre a lot softer than Ilford and the old Forte and Agfa papers a hardener might be useful after toning with them.

Ian

 

[MattKing]

I don't use (but I am interested in trying) sepia toning using thiocarbamide. What I do note, however, when I use Kodak Sepia II toner on Ilford MGIV RC paper, is that the emulsion does seem to be more fragile, unless I use hardener.
I would guess that the Ilford MGIV RC paper comes from the factory well hardened, but the bleach and re-development process that I use affects the level of hardening.

 

[Ian Grant]

I don't use (but I am interested in trying) sepia toning using thiocarbamide. What I do note, however, when I use Kodak Sepia II toner on Ilford MGIV RC paper, is that the emulsion does seem to be more fragile, unless I use hardener.
I would guess that the Ilford MGIV RC paper comes from the factory well hardened, but the bleach and re-development process that I use affects the level of hardening.

You shouldn't have any issues with MGIV RC, or any other Ilford paper. I've use thiourea (thiocarbamide) toners quite a bit with Ilford papers, and many other toners as well never any problems.

Ian

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

I also had a problem with softening paper emulsion, especially after toning. The problem actually was my washing - which you need to do more when toning. I used to wash at aprox. 30C, so the emulsion got soft. Since I am washing at 20C, everything is fine.