Semi-Stand vs. Minimal Agitation

[rshepard]

What are the differences, if any, between semi-stand development of sheet film in vertical tubes and minimal agitation development? I'm curious because I would like to use appropriate terminology.

Rich

 

[vet173]

semistand = agitation once half way through. minimal = 2to3 agitations.

 

[noseoil]

Rich, I use minimal agitation to mean an agitation every three minutes, with a rest in between for the duration of development. Semi-stand would mean to me an agitation at about 1/3, 2/3 or at most 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 of the full time. There are a lot of terms floating around out there, but this is a basic interpretation of the two.

Typically, I use pyrocat-hd at 1:1:150 for this type of development, but rodinal or r09 will do the same thing. tim

 

[rshepard]

Thank you both, vet73 and noseoil. That confirms what I suspected.

I'll be using minimal agitation with my sheet film (I have a bunch of 2.25x3.25 to develop this evening), using Pyrocat-HD. I'm looking forward to the results.

I was given the suggestion of using 1:1:100 for 20 minutes for enlarging, and 1:1:150 for 30 minutes for contact printing. I'll be enlarging the smaller negatives, but contact printing the 4x5 negs as I don't have an enlarger for that size negative.

Rich

 

[sanking]

Thank you both, vet73 and noseoil. That confirms what I suspected.

I'll be using minimal agitation with my sheet film (I have a bunch of 2.25x3.25 to develop this evening), using Pyrocat-HD. I'm looking forward to the results.

I was given the suggestion of using 1:1:100 for 20 minutes for enlarging, and 1:1:150 for 30 minutes for contact printing. I'll be enlarging the smaller negatives, but contact printing the 4x5 negs as I don't have an enlarger for that size negative.

Rich

I describe the various forms of agitation as follows.,

1. Continuous -- In rotary or in some other system where agitation is constant.

2. Normal -- In tanks, continuous agitation for the first minute or so, then for 10 seconds once every 60 secons, or for 5 seconds every thirty seconds.
In trays, shuffle agitation in which the 4-6 sheets of film are shuffled continuously.

3. Minimal -- In tanks, continuous agitation for the first minute, then for ten seconds every 2-3 minutes during the rest of development.
Same in cradle type developers, or in tubes covered with developer.

4. Extreme Minimal -- Same as above, but no more than four agitation cycles during the course of development, at the beginning, 1/4 point, 1/2 point and 3/4 point.

5. Semi-stand-- Same as above, but only two agitation cycles, one at the beginning, another at the 1/2 point of development.

6. Stand -- Same as 3, 4, and 5, but only one agitation cyle at the beginning, and no more.

Sandy King

 

[jstraw]

5 & 6 look the same, Sandy.

 

[sanking]

5 & 6 look the same, Sandy.

Thanks for alerting me to the error. I made a correction in the original message.

Sandy

 

[fhovie]

Cool - I do #4 - it is good to have a standard and this is as good a standard as I have seen. I have not had any streaking or uneven development using extreme minimal and have seen every benefit from increased sharpness, highlight compensation all the way to distracting oversharp mackie lines. Now with the glycol versions of pcat - I have greater consistency as the chemicals age and an increase in film speed - with the pc glycol version

 

[sanking]

Cool - I do #4 - it is good to have a standard and this is as good a standard as I have seen. I have not had any streaking or uneven development using extreme minimal and have seen every benefit from increased sharpness, highlight compensation all the way to distracting oversharp mackie lines. Now with the glycol versions of pcat - I have greater consistency as the chemicals age and an increase in film speed - with the pc glycol version

I do #4 as well whenever it is practical to do so, say with medium format and LF film up to 5X7 in size. For ULF I tend to devleop in tubes with rotary agitation since the large amounts of soluton necessary for minimal type procedures is very heavy and hard to handle.



Sandy

 

[jstraw]

I'm a #4 man too.

 

[Ole]

#1, #2 and #5 here.

I've just finished a big batch of 8x10" Delta 100 in a JOBO paper drum, continuous agitation and all. Most of my roll film gets #2. I've done glass plates in a horrible old Johnson's Film & Cut Plate tank which can't really take any agitation at all, so I just pour in half strength FX-2, let it sit for half an hour, then pour the developer out and back in again. 90 minutes total development seems to work for just about any emulsion.

 

[MattKing]

I think Sandy's post here should be converted into an Article, and a "sticky" at that.

Matt

 

[Russ Young]

Sandy (and others!)-

Is the film horizontal or vertical with #4 and #5?

Thanks,
Russ

 

[sanking]

Sandy (and others!)-

Is the film horizontal or vertical with #4 and #5?

Thanks,
Russ

Russ,

I develop with the film vertical, in tubes. However, a number of people have reported good results developing with the film horizontal, separated in cradle type devices.

With the right developer and dilution I think you can get even development both ways. But dilution seems to be important, as Pat Gainer has pointed out, because it changes the specific gravity of the solution.


Sandy

 

[Ole]

I've done both horizontal and vertical, and can't see much if any difference - with FX-2. Some other developers seem to be a little more prone to "bromide drag".

 

[rshepard]

I describe the various forms of agitation as follows.,

Thank you very much, Sandy, for a very useful set of definitions. Now we can all know what we mean when we use a particular term.

Rich

 

[rshepard]

I do #4 as well whenever it is practical to do so, say with medium format and LF film up to 5X7 in size.

I develop my 120 roll film in the Jobo with continuous agitation, but was convinced by the local group to develop sheet film (2.25x3.25" and 4x5") in tubes. Tonight will be my first try with five of the smaller size HP5+ in Pyrocat-HD. I cut ABS plastic tubes, fit plastic window screen inside, and five of them fit nicely in a Jobo 2830 paper drum. It takes 2.5 litres of liquid to fill the drum above the tubes, but the cup inside the top keeps them from floating out of the solutions.

Should be an interesting trial.

Thanks to all the good advice and comments,

Rich