Semi Stand Development-Tell me if I got this right

[mark]

I will be using PL100 developed in pyrocat HD then printing Lodima processed in amidol (though I have read it is very very messy)

1-Presoak for five minutes

2-Some say it is agitation once at the beginning and once in the middle (Some call this extreme minimal agitation) others say agitate at the beginning, 1/3 and 2/3 mark.

3-Most successful in tubes set vertically in the soup, some have been successful with sloshers but most people seemed to have trouble in trays with streaks and mottled development

4-Development time is 1 hour

5-Dilute pyrocat 1:1:150 or 1.5:1:200 There seemed to be equal thoughts on this I will go with the 1.5:1:200

6-agitation is vigorous

7-people who use tubes use a screen between the tube and the film. one person got screen marks on the back of their film from this. No explanation why but maybe not vigorous enough agitation

What am I missing?

 

[timbo10ca]

I think SS is one agitation at the start then one at the middle of the time period. EMA is start, 1/3, and 2/3 way through.

I use tubes and tried using the screen in behind the film to get it out easier. I got screen marks. So, I cut the tube at the level the film would be at and put in a male/female unit so I could unscrew it and remove the film easily. Verticle for SS and EMA seems to be the best option. I use a water bath of tempered water and monitor it to keep temp stable. I use a rectangular mop bucket and am having a buddy weld/manufacture a grate for the top of it to keep the tubes verticle and from moving around/falling over. I also use cheap nightvision goggles (those toy ones- Eyeclops). They have made the PIA factor of EMA almost tolerable ;P

Dev time depends on the film and need for expansion/contraction-there is huge variation from person to person- you gotta test (obviously). I believe Steve Sherman uses 1.5:1:150 for - and N/low N devs but for N+++ stuff 1.5:1:200. You may find you need longer agitations (20 sec)for the +++ devs (vs 10 sec for N and lower)

Steve is a great resource and has been a great help to me. EMA is witchcraft........

 

[c6h6o3]

Agitation should be gentle. Just turn the tube end over end slowly for about 10 seconds. I agitate constantly for the first minute and then twice more. I use a dilution of 1.5:1:175. If you're going to cut the B solution like that, be sure you don't go beyond 200 with the water.

You don't need the screen. Be very careful with PL100. It scratches if you even look at it wrong.

 

[juan]

I think I 'm the one who's advocated vigorous agitation, but I'm saying the same thing Jim is. When I first started, I just jiggled the tube. Not good enough. As Jim says, turn the tube over, or, as I do, roll it on it's side.

I use 1.5:1:150 with PL100, but the actual dilution doesn't matter so much as being consistent. Depending on temperature and contrast range of my subject, my times sometimes exceed one hour. If yours are underdeveloped, don't be afraid to develop longer. I did the BTZS tests to find accurate development times (I use EMA), and find the extra testing to have been worth it. I found minimal agitation schemes a bit more complicated than just putting the film in the developer for a long time and leaving it.

Good luck,
juan

 

[chrisf]

Dev time depends on the film and need for expansion/contraction-there is huge variation from person to person- you gotta test (obviously). I believe Steve Sherman uses 1.5:1:150 for - and N/low N devs but for N+++ stuff 1.5:1:200. You may find you need longer agitations (20 sec)for the +++ devs (vs 10 sec for N and lower)

Steve is a great resource and has been a great help to me. EMA is witchcraft........

I also did away with the screens. Agitation is always vertical. I use the 1.5:1:150 dilution.

I don't understand the higher dilution 1.5:1:200 for +++ developments. Wouldn't this make the developer less energetic leaving the film with a lower contrast?

chris

 

[sanking]

I think I 'm the one who's advocated vigorous agitation, but I'm saying the same thing Jim is. When I first started, I just jiggled the tube. Not good enough. As Jim says, turn the tube over, or, as I do, roll it on it's side.

Good luck,
juan

I recommend very vigorous agitation at the beginning of development, and gentle after that.

You need to test for how much contrast you want because even though the developer solution is very dilute the negative will continue to build contrast as long as it is in the solution.

Sandy King

 

[timbo10ca]

I also did away with the screens. Agitation is always vertical. I use the 1.5:1:150 dilution.

I don't understand the higher dilution 1.5:1:200 for +++ developments. Wouldn't this make the developer less energetic leaving the film with a lower contrast?

chris

Yes sorry- I misquoted him.

Normal and Normal minus D is always at a 1.5 – 1 – 175ml ratio and N + D and beyond is always 1.5 - 1 – 150ml.

 

[mark]

Sounds like I have things pretty much in order. Now I need to construct a light tight tub/bucket to do this with. This is shaping up to be a fun project.

 

[c6h6o3]

Now I need to construct a light tight tub/bucket to do this with.

We had Steve Sherman down here to give a workshop on semi-stand development at VisArts in Rockville. In early 2006 as I recall. He uses tubes now, but at that time he developed his 7x17 negatives in open paint cans. We all had our various containers full of film and dilute developer and just sat there in the dark for about 45 minutes. Some of Steve's most stunning work was done this way.

 

[mark]

When I was just starting hydroponics the only place to find free information was on pot growing sites. I read, last night, how to make a 5 gallon bucket completely light proof.

They are a wealth of information.

 

[sanking]

Sounds like I have things pretty much in order. Now I need to construct a light tight tub/bucket to do this with. This is shaping up to be a fun project.

Mark,

What size film will you be developing?

Sandy King

 

[mark]

8x10 and I want to do several at a time. What size tubes to you use?

 

[Steve Sherman]

We had Steve Sherman down here to give a workshop on semi-stand development at VisArts in Rockville. In early 2006 as I recall. He uses tubes now, but at that time he developed his 7x17 negatives in open paint cans. We all had our various containers full of film and dilute developer and just sat there in the dark for about 45 minutes. Some of Steve's most stunning work was done this way.

I agree with Sandy's recommendation of vigorous agitation at the beginning of development, and gentle after that. That minor change to my SOP's has improved the evenness of development.

However, as Jim indicated I have switched to a narrow tube in an effort to streamline and reduce amounts of chemistry used. That said, the agitation process has yielded a slight increase in edge density which is troublesome. I continue to vary my immersion and agitation procedures to cure the edge density issue.

As Sandy indicated 5 years ago, the process itself can be mysterious and a bit unpredictable, however, the possibilities with this process are not possible in any other form of wet chemistry development.

Cheers!

 

[Steve Sherman]

D Tubes

8x10 and I want to do several at a time. What size tubes to you use?

Hopefully 2 pictures of my developing tubes are shown here.

Initially, the film is loaded and then a presoak for 3-5 min. Chemistry is contained in the second tube and in total darkness the water is dumped and then the tubes are screwed together and turned upside down and the chemistry rushes into the film side.

Agitation is done via a rolling method for a minute or more depending on degree of development desired.

Tube then stands without agitation again for varying amounts of time predicated on desired development.

 

[mark]

What are the diameters of the tubes Steve? They look like 3 inch diameter.

My goals is to fit as many tubes into a 5 gallon bucket as possible.

 

[sanking]

What are the diameters of the tubes Steve? They look like 3 inch diameter.

My goals is to fit as many tubes into a 5 gallon bucket as possible.

It looks like Steve is using tubes with end caps. When I develop with minimal agitation I just put the film in white open ended PVC tubes, and plop the tubes into a larger container filled with developer over the top of the tubes. With 5X7 film, for example, I use 2" ID tubes and develop six of them at a time in a Beseler 11X14 print drum. Once the tubes go in the drum you put the cap on and then turn the lights on until it is time to transfer the film to a stop bath.

Sandy

 

[jeroldharter]

What are the diameters of the tubes Steve? They look like 3 inch diameter.

My goals is to fit as many tubes into a 5 gallon bucket as possible.

I was curious so I did some math. I think that 5 tubes would fit in a 5 gallon bucket as a ballpark estimate.


Circumference = pi (3.14) * Diameter

So an 8 inch wide film would require an inner circumference of ~2.54. A 3 inch tube should suffice for 8x10 film.

Volume = pi * Radius squared * Height

So a 3 inch tube (= 7.2 cm diameter = 3.6 cm radius) that is 11 inches tall (= 28 cm height) results in:

Volume = 3.14 * (3.6 *3.6) * 28
Volume = 1139.4432 cc or ~ 1150 ml

In other words you would need just over a liter of developer per 8x10 inch negative and for 5 tubes in a bucket you would need ~1.5 gallons of developer for each run.

 

[Steve Sherman]

What are the diameters of the tubes Steve? They look like 3 inch diameter.

My goals is to fit as many tubes into a 5 gallon bucket as possible.

Yes, tubes are 3" diameter, they are electrical PVC conduit which is light tight where as white PVC is not light tight.

Tube depth is 3/4" longer than film length allowing forefinger and thumb to grasp the film in darkness and pull out to next step.

Good friend Tim Jones (climbabout) is the fellow who dreamt up this tube design and develops his 8x10 film with slight variations on my procedure and get terrific results as well.

Cheers!

 

[sanking]

Hopefully 2 pictures of my developing tubes are shown here.

Steve,

That is a really nice looking work area you have there. Puts my work space to shame.

Sandy King

 

[Steve Sherman]

Steve,

That is a really nice looking work area you have there. Puts my work space to shame.

Sandy King

Thanks Sandy, but as my father always told me, it's not the arrow, it's the indian.

 

[mark]

Thanks Sandy, but as my father always told me, it's not the arrow, it's the indian.

Ha! I grew up on the Navajo Reservation. One old Navajo guy I knew would say "no matter how good the indian is, if the arrow isn't stright he isn't going to feed his family.

 

[juan]

Your calculations are correct - I fit five three-inch tubes in a five-gallon bucket.

You might also consider the plastic tubes sold at welding supply stores for storing welding rods. They are the perfect size for developing one 8x10. Some are black and light-tight. I believe the ones sold by Harbor Freight are orange and probably not light tight, but perhaps could be painted.
juan