Selling prints on ebay

Cool Alex, but remember one of the things Jorge pointed out in his posts. This should just be one part of how you are going to promote yourself. Follow this up with a website that you can link to from the sale page. Then the ebay listings can sell a few images and also drive people to a website they can see more of your other work.

JMoore said:

Hmmmm... Now where have I seen this print before?

Oh I remember, it's hanging on my "gallery" wall

Jim

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Jim, now you have to consider your print an "artist's edition". :rolleyes:

George, thanks. You're always a help. The website will be along in a week or two. Err, that is, if I get off my butt and finish it.

Does size matter?

First, thanks to everyone once again for their contributions, I found them very valuable.
At the (possible) risk of drifting outside the scope of APUG, I would like to ask this:
My market research and experiences have suggested to me that, particularly in the corporate sector but also elsewhere, people are looking for large color images. I am currently working in association with a couple of galleries which supply these. Since my answer here is 4x5" color film, scanned and output as inkjet prints, this subject may not be for APUG, but I would still be glad to know - what do people see in galleries that feature photography? A lot of darkroom-produced finely crafted monochrome, mainly archival giclée, C-types, R-types, a mixture? As someone remarked in a previous posting, it is possible to knock yourself out crafting a superb b+w print print only to get the reaction "Too bad it isn't color!" Does this happen to people often?
I grew up with darkroom b+w and still enjoy handprinting, indeed I plan to shoot plenty of LF b+w in the coming year. Notwithstanding this, archival inkjet prints feature large in my business plans as a means firstly of meeting a perceived demand and secondly of producing a quality image cost-effectively so that it can be sold profitably for not too much money. I feel that producing only handcrafted monochrome means an excessively long lead time before you can sell at above cost.
One final point - in setting pricing, I have felt it reasonable to ask what a couple might spend on a meal for two in a fairly smart restaurant (not a haunt of millionaires or the #1 pick in the gourmet guide!). How do people feel about this as a rule of thumb? Among other things, it means that you can more easily visualize your target customers, your marketing task then becomes a matter of getting them to appreciate that they can derive equal or more pleasure from your picture than from a couple of hours eating!
Any comments?

Regards,

David

i need to clarify something , or perhaps i miss understand a remark about a comment i made. anyway, i did not mean that elton john was buying on ebay (he may or maynot) what i do know is that he has purchased local student work; which i think is very cool as most people don't even want to see a student show (unless they are family) let along pay "real" money for an image.

As an aside, how nice to see a discussion occur with respect and thoughtful comments, no flame wars. COOOOL !

I think the answer to the question of "what is in the galleries" is going to depend on where you are located. Here in New York, there are many galleries showing fine traditional prints, a good amount of B&W, and some color work, relatively little inkjet or digital, although it's starting to make an appearance where the aesthetic quality of the work is edgy enough to make the print medium less important, or where the work is essentially digital art based in photography. New York, though, has a collectors' market and a fine art market. I'd guess that collectors who are interested in photography are more likely to be the ones buying traditional prints, and that those who are buying edgy digital work are more likely to be people who collect contemporary art in a variety of media. Traditional subjects/digital output in this context doesn't work well, unless the photographer is a well known name like Galen Rowell, and even then, Rowell (or at least his heirs) might be selling to the same people in New York as he would sell to in Bishop, CA, if they could get to Bishop, CA.

If you're in an area of natural beauty where the market is composed mainly of tourists who aren't particularly photography collectors but want a souvenir of their voyage, and if you're shooting landscapes or historic architectural monuments, then big color prints might be more of what that market will buy.

David

I went to a few galleries while on winter vacation. I saw a large majority of color but they were ilfochromes and C prints and LED prints. BW was not very well represented in the 5 or so galleries I went to. Archival giclée, which, as one gallery owner put it, is nothing but a fancy term meant to mislead the public and to give Suzy Inkjet Printer a schnazzy sounding attempt at legitamacy, was relegated to the tourist bins (unmounted and slapped in beat up plastic folders. The one place that had inkjet actually on the wall was more about manipulation and edgy artsy stuff like David was talking about. As for size I saw many sizes represented but there was a weight to the bigger color images. The bigger prints were produced on LED machines and I was surprised at how nice they looked. None were priced and I figured If I had to ask I could not afford it. Only one of the Galleries would be what I would call a high end gallery and this was just my observation.

I spent one day of the break shooting in the Bisti Badlands with David Nestler, a really nice buy by the way, and he made a comment that I find very appropriate to this discussion. A person who has the funds to pay 4-5-or 600 dollars on a photograph most likely will pay more, those who have a hard time justifying that amount of money have no business even thinking about it. Their money was obviously tied up in the neccessities like food and household bills. Ebay is where these folks -like me-will get their prints.

I like your idea for pricing. I never thought about it that way. Are you talking about in the 50-75 dollar range?

These galleries were in Colorado, New Mexico and northern Arizona.

mark said:

David

I like your idea for pricing. I never thought about it that way. Are you talking about in the 50-75 dollar range?

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Thanks for these two very informative replies. Surprising that inkjet prints are still struggling for acceptance, and the comment about deceiving the public with the word "giclée" is ominous. Of course it just basically means "inkjet" (although if you asked a lady of the night in the Bois de Boulogne, you'd get a different definition), but I had thought the term was now widely accepted to mean an inkjet print produced with carefully selected ink and paper and with a dependable lifespan.

As regards the restaurant price equivalent, dinner for two in the UK tends to cost around 45 to 50 pounds in the provinces (about $95) and double that in London. It was more the London price level that I was thinking of (100 pounds).

Regards,

David

I consider "giclée" unacceptable for anything but an Iris print (even something arguably better like an Ultrachrome).

David A. Goldfarb said:

I consider "giclée" unacceptable for anything but an Iris print (even something arguably better like an Ultrachrome).

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This is what I mean - Mr. Epson's finest with his personal guarantee!

Regards,

David

With regards to Ebay I have only really seen one model that seems to me have the opportunity to differentiate itself from the niose level of thousands of images up for sale and that is the Contact Printers Guild. The members have done a good job of selling exclusivity and a certain cache with the site. And I find all the images to be excellent. They have recently run a full page add in B&W Magazine wich will drive galleries and collectors to the site. I congratulate Ray, Jorge and the rest for their initial success.

One person I know of who sells prints on the web and makes a living doing it is Dave Beckerman in New York although scraping buy may be a more apt description. He had very poor luck selling prints on Ebay. He sells prints because he has a very interesting blog that drives people to the site on a regular basis. I believe that people buy his prints because of this communication. He does do some interesting work, although not as much since he switched to a total digital workflow.

As far as the idea that people are buying prints based on a scan, you just have to offer a no questions asked money back gaurantee if the print is not want they thought is was. If you do not have that much faith in your work you have no business selling it "sight unseen".

As selling Ebay reducing the value of your work, you need to establish its value. I would make a suggestion that anyone who wants to list on Ebay take some work to someone who knows photography or to a gallery for a critical review. They may be able to help you establish a price for your work.

I don't know if anyone has a handle on the demographics of people who buy photography of Ebay. Is it mostly freinds and peers buying each others work?
Is it first time art buyers who find unique matted and framed prints fit their budget and aesthetics? I guess if one could determine some specific traits among customers one could begin to tailor there marketing strategy.

Besides ebay there are a number of sites that are online galleries such as Barebulb, Photoartists Network, Yourwall, Photo Central and a new one I like called PhotoSeen Gallery. There are probably dozens of more similar sites and cooperatives. Does anyone know if these actually produce sales?

I see photographers take out those 1/4 and 1/2 page adds in the back of B&W and sometimes the same photographers take out full page adds in the front of the mag. I see the names change pretty regulary so I assume it is not a profitable endeavor but does anyone know if this produces sales?

If you really want to make a living from selling prints or at least make enough to pay for your photography I think you still need to use some shoe leather and a portfolio case besides Ebay. You still need to show your work with galleries, interior decorators, commercial space designers, etc.

Why do people always come back to ,"AA or EW sold their prints for only....." This is totally irrelevant for two reasons. The sums quoted would have been subject to inflation and b, photography has grown considerably in teh last few decades. These greats paved the way for the Lorancs, Jablonskis, Kolbreners etc to sell prints starting at $600 or so going up way past $3000 in some cases AND they are still alive.

Tom

David H. Bebbington said:

This is what I mean - Mr. Epson's finest with his personal guarantee!

Regards,

David

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Epson also professes ease of use. Which might be where the problem lies.

I print my color stuff on my dad's 2200. It is fun and I tend to give those prints away. I would never charge more than the cost of materials and maybe a really small amount so I could get a burger. In fact I think of inkjet prints as McPrints. It might sound weird but I feel like I am cheating. It is too easy. I know nothing about photoshop besides unsharp masking so I scan I crop I print. One image might take me 20 minutes to scan shop and start printing. Most of the time is spent arguing with the F***ing scanner.

I think this is what the gallery owner is saying. The public perceives very little work behind them. I know there are others who spend hours if not days perfecting an image in photoshop, just like those who spend forever in the darkroom, but the public does not see that. IN their minds they see the HP commercials where the lady plugs a card into the printer, prints, and hangs the print on the wall. As long as HP and epson profess the ease of photography and photographic printing, inkjet, and digital photographs will not be able to hold a candle to those images printed in a more traditional manner. It took a while for the LED prints be considered real photographic prints and many still scoff at them. This is just the way I perceive things.

David H. Bebbington said:

(although if you asked a lady of the night in the Bois de Boulogne, you'd get a different definition),

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Two questions:
What is an LED print?
What definition of giclee would the lady of the night in the Bois de Boulogne give?
(I hate being left out of "in" jokes)

johnnywalker said:

Two questions:
What is an LED print?
What definition of giclee would the lady of the night in the Bois de Boulogne give?
(I hate being left out of "in" jokes)

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LED is a way to expose light sensitive materials (a Sienna Fotoprint is a digital printer that uses LED and I believe there are LED heads for enlargers)
I believe Giclée means spit, spurt, spray or some such in French.

Hey all, give ALex Hawley a pat in the back and congratulations for his first sale on E bay...with buy it now no less!!!

Congratulations Alex...way to go bubba.....

Gleaned from another photographers web site:

Giclee is the word used to describe the "money shot" in French pornography.

David A. Goldfarb said:

I think the answer to the question of "what is in the galleries" is going to depend on where you are located. Here in New York...

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Very much so. Here on Oahu, most of the galleries I have visited either only carry paintings or a variety of items (including photography). I haven't seen any that specialize in photography only (other than Kim Taylor Reece on the North Shore). I am not totally familiar with Waikiki so there could be one in an out of the way place. However, most of the photographs I have seen hanging here are really bad, and based on local photography business, I assume they were probably ink jet prints. I remember meeting a photographer on Kauai once, who extolled his digital camera and proudly showed off his giclée - which, in my opinion, only served to hide the flaws in the image (pixelization). He basically shut up when I told him I was carrying a 4x5 in my backpack.

Go Alex!

nice alex
i must go browse a bit

If you want to compare what galleries are showing in different regions in the US, here is a good collection of links--

http://art-support.com/galleries.htm

I check the New York listings periodically when I'm planning to go gallery hopping (though mainly I walk around with the photo listings from the _Village Voice_ in hand).

Congrats Alex, on your sale!

GO ALEX! Congratulations.

my 2 cents

I put Images here :
http://www.art.com/App/OriginalArt/...1/search_string--gustavo+castilla/Results.art
and no sales same for http://dart.fine-art.com/userprofile.asp?i=32268
so If you find a good site please let me know

Jim Chinn said:

Gleaned from another photographers web site:

Giclee is the word used to describe the "money shot" in French pornography.

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Despite this - would you believe it - there are still people who think giclées are CHEAP?

Regards,

David

Here is an interesting article on eBay selling:

http://www.ecommerce-guide.com/essentials/ebay/article.php/3454621