Sell it all for a 7

LMNOP · Mar 26, 2015

Hey APUG,

I think about this every day now... What do you think about the value of medium format cameras, and whether or not holding on to them will pay off? I only ask because I have considered selling certain models, to afford others, but I wonder if that will become a regret later on.

I currently shoot with an RZ67, GW690ii, and 645AF. Every day I consider selling all three for a Mamiya 7 kit. I feel like the benefits of all three cameras could be streamlined into one.

RZ - gives me the Mamiya feel, 6x7 format, 10 shots per roll, perfect.
GW690 - Rangefinder feel is great, big negatives, I love holding it right up to my eye, unlike the RZ.
645AF - Same with the RZ, it has the Mamiya feel, but the negatives seem small (I realize how spoiled that sounds) and I hold it up to my eye, it has metering, which makes it an adventurous camera.

The RZ is almost perfect, I cannot seem to put it down, but I tend to carry the GW with me as well, so I can switch to that eye-level style when I need to. It seems like the Mamiya 7 would combine these two cameras nicely, and give me a new level of quality that doesn't exist on any of these three models alone. The other key benefit is the weight. I would love to carry such a light camera, and get those 6x7 negs. The one thing I will sacrifice is the SLR factor. I DO love to see exactly what the image will look like, but I do love the RF aspect of my GW. Most of the work I do these days is nature, landscape, portrait, and I love walking great lengths, looking for stuff to shoot. The RZ is a big commitment when hiking...

I would love any thoughts you guys have, as always. Its more or less brainstorming, ideally I would just hoard all of this gear and buy more. My friends think I am insane for considering another film investment, when I own no digital imaging units whatsoever. I just watched a documentary about a photographer that shoots the Mamiya 7II and it was so cool, seeing the wide angle in action.

frank · Mar 26, 2015

Yes .

heespharm · Mar 26, 2015

No... Save up... I like not having to correct for parallax and being able to shoot real close .. I own both...

LMNOP · Mar 26, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
Get a Hasselblad. One of the gliding mirror models to cut down on age-related focus inaccuracies due to deteriorated mirror pads. Everything you need without carrying around an anvil.

If only I liked square images... I do enjoy the hassy build quality and design above most others.

LMNOP · Mar 26, 2015

heespharm said:
No... Save up... I like not having to correct for parallax and being able to shoot real close .. I own both...

Yeah... Seems like the only option...

RattyMouse · Mar 26, 2015

The Mamiya 7 w 43mm, 65mm, and 80mm lenses makes a fascinating kit on paper. If I could start over again, that might be the best gear for me personally. I shoot with two rangefinders, a Fuji GF670W and GF670. These are relatively compact in that I can easily carry both of them along with a third camera if I want in my Billingham Hadley Pro bag. I often think that a Mamiya 7 would drastically cut down the gear I carry.

The lenses on the Mamiya 7 are amazing and I do know how it feels to miss the SLR experience where you can see the depth of field while shooting. So for that I have a Nikon FM2n which I use for times when I want to have the SLR experience instead of a rangefinder. As another posted here in this thread, the Hasselblad is the way to do that while still keeping the large negative. However the lenses for that camera are fairly large.

Good luck with your decision.

snapguy · Mar 26, 2015

Path

The Gods of GAS are angry and you have no hope of attempting to appease them. You will trade everything you have got for the "Magnificient Seven" and you will be happy. For a time. And then another vixen will come down the pike and tempt you mightily. She will flaunt her charms and will bewitch you. You will be putty in her shapley hands. You cannot resist.

Fixcinater · Mar 26, 2015

Sell it all, better to streamline and do more work than fuss about gear.

There's a reason you are so tempted.

film_man · Mar 26, 2015

Selling the GW690 and the AF will get you enough money to buy a 7 with a 80 or 65. So you could do that AND keep the RZ for when you need an SLR.

Tom Kershaw · Mar 26, 2015

The Mamiya 7II is good camera with brilliant lenses, however I'd be cautious of disposing of your SLR system if you make use of its features, e.g for close work and telephoto.

Tom

LMNOP · Mar 26, 2015

film_man said:
Selling the GW690 and the AF will get you enough money to buy a 7 with a 80 or 65. So you could do that AND keep the RZ for when you need an SLR.

This is the closest compromise I can consider, though if I save enough I can probably just sell the 645. My GW is so new to me, and I love it so, so much. The 645 was my intro to medium format, and it makes me sad to part with it, but I haven't been shooting it lately at all.

LMNOP · Mar 26, 2015

Tom Kershaw said:
The Mamiya 7II is good camera with brilliant lenses, however I'd be cautious of disposing of your SLR system if you make use of its features, e.g for close work and telephoto.

Tom

I can't part with my RZ, I rely on it too much for close work, you're right. The 7 would be a great addition, and I think my 645 May be the thing to sell.

EdSawyer · Mar 26, 2015

Sell the 645 and the GW. The Mamiya 7 is everything everyone says about it and more. I also have a full RZ67 setup, Mamiya 7 setup, GSW690III, etc. The mamiya 7 is WAY nicer for hiking, landscape, etc. But, the RZ is best for closeup, tele, portraits, etc. They complement each other nicely. The Mamiya 7 is crazy light too. The body, plus 5 lenses, flash, film, filters, easily fits into a small backpack and is not heavy at all compared to the RZ.

Also, you should get the AE-II prism for the RZ. It makes shooting it (at eye level) an excellent experience. If you are ever in NH, maybe we could meet up and you could try that stuff out in person.

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over parting with the GW690II. Once you use the M7 the GW gets quickly ignored (or at least mine does!). The main upsides that keep me using the GSW690III: It's 6x9 instead of 6x7. It's one piece, rugged, and nice for travelling super-light, and when I don't want to risk the Mamiya 7. Plus the GSW lens is quite superb in it's own right.

LMNOP · Mar 26, 2015

EdSawyer said:
Sell the 645 and the GW. The Mamiya 7 is everything everyone says about it and more. I also have a full RZ67 setup, Mamiya 7 setup, GSW690III, etc. The mamiya 7 is WAY nicer for hiking, landscape, etc. But, the RZ is best for closeup, tele, portraits, etc. They complement each other nicely. The Mamiya 7 is crazy light too. The body, plus 5 lenses, flash, film, filters, easily fits into a small backpack and is not heavy at all compared to the RZ.

Also, you should get the AE-II prism for the RZ. It makes shooting it (at eye level) an excellent experience. If you are ever in NH, maybe we could meet up and you could try that stuff out in person.

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over parting with the GW690II. Once you use the M7 the GW gets quickly ignored (or at least mine does!). The main upsides that keep me using the GSW690III: It's 6x9 instead of 6x7. It's one piece, rugged, and nice for travelling super-light, and when I don't want to risk the Mamiya 7. Plus the GSW lens is quite superb in it's own right.

Thanks! I'll send you a note next time I am passing through NH! The last and only time I had the opportunity to hold a mamiya 7, it felt like I was reunited with an old friend, it fit so perfectly in my hand, and all the controls were dreamy smooth, felt like I had designed the whole thing.

shutterlight · Mar 26, 2015

The 7 changed my life three years ago. It's what I do 98% of my work with, and what I've used for about 90% of my work over the past several years. It's a brilliant camera-- I have the original 7, and would encourage you to get one as well, should you choose to buy a 7.

However, I've known a number of people who conclude it wasn't for them. It's a polarizing camera. Some people can't stand the lack of parallax correction-- it even gets to me sometimes, but I mostly don't mind. You learn to factor it in to some extent, if not entirely. The inability to focus closely bothers many people, as it does me from time to time.

My experience is entirely with the 80 and 65mm lenses. My 7 has the upgraded viewfinder, which is the only thing you really need from the 7II.

In your most recent post, you hit on something that is true for me-- the 7 fits my hands completely.

SLVR · Mar 26, 2015

Being an owner of a m7 who recently traded for an m6 with a user here on apug I can give this insight.

the m7 is big. It's awkward to keep I'm a bag and with lenses and your every day bag stuff it's not a light carry. Shooting with it however is a dream once you get firmiliar with rf 6x7 shooting. Being a 3 year leica m user it still took me about 4 months to get used to framing the way I want. The spot meter is great and is a feature I miss dearly with my switch to the m6.

things that I did find myself struggling with was the parallax that everyone talks about. I think that with time one would learn to compensate. I have no problems with parallax on a leica m but the viewfinder offset is much farther with the m6 or m7. I think it can be learned with practice. I also didn't like the focal lengths of the lenses. Being a 50mm user I found myself needing to reevaluate where I have to position myself with that camera. You will also have to get used to the broader dof with the slower lenses.

These things just add to the learning curve but weren't a deal breaker for me. I loved the camera. I hope that with this 6 I can fall in love the same way I did with the 7 as there are a lot of great features that are in the 6 that should have been in the 7.

I use use/used these cameras as my main mf shooters. I also have a Pentax 67 for shallow dof stuff and my m5 for 35mm junk. i don't see why one can't use rangefinders for almost everything. You just have to evaluate whether a rangefinder will fit into your workflow and the type of shooting you do.

samuelphoto · Mar 26, 2015

In looking back at all my work over the years, there is no question that my best work was done using medium format film cameras. Hasselblad 501c/m, Mamiya 7II, Fuji GSW690ii and III and XPAN (OK, close to MF). The only thing that would hold me back from purchasing any of these is availability of parts and repairs. Except for the Blad, none of these are supported any more by the factory for repairs. In fact I called Fujifilm this morning and they have no parts for any MF film cameras, they even have gotten rid of the test fixtures. So, if you have a failure, your'e screwed. That leaves the Blad, a fully manual camera with tons of parts available second hand and many capable repair options. My 35mm cameras are Leica M's an a Nikon F3. Lots and lots of parts and service options available for both. So, I suggest you keep this in mind when choosing a film body of any format.

shutterlight · Mar 26, 2015

The 7 can be and is repaired by Precision Camera Works in Illinois. Bob does great work there, and I highly recommend his services to anyone in need of Mamiya 7 repair or service.

TheToadMen · Mar 26, 2015

Simplify your live and go out shooting ...

Sell it all and get yourself a Hasselblad SWC (including a decent CLA) and lots of film.

benjiboy · Mar 26, 2015

I would stick to what you already have, because of the versatility it offers, I'm not convinced a Mamiya 7 would improve your photography but it certainly would restrict the range of subjects you could tackle.

BenJT · Mar 26, 2015

benjiboy said:
I'm not convinced a Mamiya 7 would improve your photography but it certainly would restrict the range of subjects you could tackle.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, after all, film itself is a limitation.

It depends on what you want to accomplish, if there are things you want to do that a 7 isn't capable of, then obviously its not the right camera, but if you can work within its boundaries, there arguably isn't a better alternative.

DREW WILEY · Mar 27, 2015

I fondled one a couple weeks ago - an exceptionally clean M7II for something used, and a good price to boot. But.. the only reason I'd be interested in something like this is as a backpacking option in old age. I know people who have used them and gone back to MF SLR's. They
are poor with anything closeup, and quite limited per long focal lengths. The selective focus "bokeh" is disappointing compared to some of the lenses in my current P67 system. If you happen to shoot both color and b&w, that means two bodies, both expensive. And I'm primarily a view camera photographer, and can already get superior results with 6x9 backs on a 4x5 when I want to travel light. ... But... if one of these just happened to show up at a tempting enough price, it would be a very nice tool to have in the arsenal....

nwilkins · Mar 27, 2015

If I were you I would stick with what you have because you were raving about the 690 and super excited it when you got it, and that was less than a month ago, right? So if you're already thinking you'll sell it for the next piece of amazing gear then chances are as soon as you get the Mamiya 7 you'll start thinking about how nice it would be to have a 6x12/6x17 or a 4x5 camera

frank · Mar 27, 2015

One way to get GAS out of your system is to give in to it and experience as many of the cameras and lenses that you find interesting and can afford, as you can. Once out the other side, one is done, and the best (defined individually) remains.

EdSawyer · Mar 27, 2015

The Mamiya 7 definitely has the best ergonomics of any medium format camera, I think. Among the smallest and lightest too, considering negative size, reliability, interchangable lenses, etc. There are folders that fold up smaller but are either more expensive, less flexible or less reliable (or all 3), and are just as big unfolded anyway. I too would recommend the original 7 over the 7II. I had both at the same time, and liked the regular 7 better, didn't need 2 bodies after all, and sold the 7II.

Sell it all for a 7

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