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Self Employed

CMoore

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
6,357
Location
USA CA
Format
35mm
I am not a photographer and do not shoot digital, so i have next to no knowledge of this stuff.
Have laws and digital tech made it tough for photographers to make a living.?
Some of the content of recent videos made me ask.
Thank You



 
yes its is harder than ever.
but this is nothing new
people have been appropriating forever.
 
In Germany only formally trained photographers (typically 3 years) were allowed to offer their services to the public. This was part of a general kind of guild system controlling crafts.
Some years ago that system of restriction was reduced to a few safety/health related crafts. Thus yielding free access for anyone to commercial photography without any requirements or control. This deregulation came about the same time digitalisation made technical access to photography more easy.
 
Yes.
Lots of commercial work has disappeared, as potential customers have gone to generally lower quality work done in house.
And look up "Moms with Cameras" for information on what has happened to the mid-level portrait and wedding market.
 
Thank You..... all 3 of you guys.
Very Interesting... Indeed.
 
I feel that some good photographers I know moved to the video production.

Many important products today require a good video, and a good Pro shows more a difference with a well shot video that's also well edited.

For the portariture, many customers have lost the reference to judge a good job. Today people is used to "nose jobs" in the selfies, and as people themselve make the selfies they conclude that a big nose is nice

So the thing is hard for pro photographers...
 
On A Side Note.......i have been Pleased and Fascinated when i click on the location for many of our members.
For example.....1385.
Click on His/Her location.!
 
MattKing said:
And look up "Moms with Cameras" for information on what has happened to the mid-level portrait and wedding market.
Click to expand...
don't knock moms with cameras they are often very good ! cheryl jacobs who was an active member here for a long time started off as a mom with a camera and she ended up doing it full time, giving workshops, flying all over the world &c. sadly this whole thing started around 1884 ... LOL

<added later but not forgotten before >
... and Nicole Boening McGrade, Valerie Yaklin-Brown and Suzanne Revy and ...
 
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CMoore said:
On A Side Note.......i have been Pleased and Fascinated when i click on the location for many of our members.
For example.....1385.
Click on His/Her location.!
Click to expand...

It is from where I take shots !

Just I've visited your location and mine is better, come here!!

We have more californians having fun:


In fact the man who discovered San Francisco Bay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_de_Portolá) had his home in the same street I'm living, there is a connection.
 
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The fact that it is difficult to earn a living as a professional photographer today cannot be disputed. The evidence is pervasive and overwhelming. However, I'm not sure that the prevalence and pervasiveness of digital imaging devices is the only reason. Rather, I think there are several things that all kinda happened at the same time and they interact in complex ways. Yes, digital cameras, and now smart phones, certainly have had an effect but also I would point to inexpensive and powerful image editing software and computers to run it, the internet and, let us not overlook the culture that worships celebrity.

I have to admit that inexpensive, auto-everything cameras that are capable of producing extremely high quality digital images by operators who have essentially no skills and do so at essentially zero cost (after the initial investment) have certainly lowered or even obliterated the traditional barrier to entry for doing what used to be paid professional photography. The celebrity worship and the notion that one can/may become a celebrity by getting recognized for some work that can be posted on the internet and therefore, potentially, be seen by a very large audience coupled with the extreme desire by the younger generations to be recognized, drives people to do do all manner of work for free (not just photography)....and that has destroyed many of what used be be good paying jobs.
 
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My God..!!!
I thought it was just a couple of guys, in a raft, having fun in the water.

Are you in this video.?
 
I have never had any ambition to be a pro. I enjoy my photography too much it would spoil it for me.
 
No Doubt.
"Technology" has crippled or eliminated most jobs that it did not create.

Wait until "Self Driving Trucks" are perfected. Can you imagine how many peopl will lose a job from that.?

I was in the painters union. Even in my day, technology eliminated A LOT of jobs.
It used to be you could not paint a wall or ceiling with just one guy. It was all oil based products, EVERYTHING lapped if you did not keep it wet, and if you DID make a mistake, you had to wait SEVERAL Hours to fix anything.
With the advent of water borne products, you could teach a monkey to do basic paint jobs, like spraying an acoustic ceiling or a big wall someplace....the outside of a building for example.
Also, the ROLLER put WAY More guys out of work than the sprayer ever did.
That one, simple, invention decimated the ranks of painters.

Quite a bit of photography is just, simply, not that too hard to do.
I just took a beginner class (film) at my local college.
They have a big hallway that they use to showcase the pictures of the students, especially the digital people.
It is nothing short of AMAZING what a 20 year old student can produce after just 3 months of school ...and in Color.!
 
part of theproblem is that companies are more brazen than they used to be.
sure back in the day a company would hire someone to do work and after it was done
stiff the photographer or after they had the images in hand not hire them to do the other jobs promised.but
with image platforms with millions of images and where the bar is lowered now so close to the ground
the human noodle can't limbo under it ... people see stuff on the web and if they can get away with
not paying much for it they will. someone here on this website a handful of years ago was contacted by
some big company ( mcD's ? Coca? IDK ) to use his/her image in one of their campaigns and they would pay him/her like
100 bucks for it. he/she was happy to be noticed and took the $$ and saved the company like 15-grand.
i was contacted a while ago too ..

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/huuuuge-opportunity.162067/
 
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CMoore said:
My God..!!!
I thought it was just a couple of guys, in a raft, having fun in the water.

Are you in this video.?
Click to expand...

No, but I'd like to climb like one of those!!!
An excellent place for photo, not Yosemite but...
 
Some people I know had their careers end. Others make more money now than they ever did. It's certainly not the same.
 
It was a hard career in the past, now it is even harder because GWCs [Guy/Girl With Camera] post their work on the internet and give their work away for free to television stations.
 
JBrunner said:
Some people I know had their careers end. Others make more money now than they ever did. It's certainly not the same.
Click to expand...

Yes... I know about 2 pros that had to drop, 3 more that have a decline, one of them now is semi pro, but I know another one that has a great economic success. His strong point is commercial skills to get assignments an providing a good service to companies, beyond his great photo skills.

One of those that had to drop is as good or better photographer but he lacks as good commercial skills.
 
We tend to remember the past fondly. I wonder if it really is more difficult, or just a function of having to constantly stay relevant in a changing marketplace.

I have been self employed for more than twenty years (not in photography), and some things have gotten easier, while other things have gotten harder - but it has never been "easy" altogether. It seems that, although there are certainly new challenges for photographers, a lot has also gotten much, much, much easier with the advent of digital imaging into the workflow. Maybe that has been forgotten as it has become commonplace.
 
Cheryl is great, and I know at least one other "Mom with Camera" who is also great.
It isn't the individual photographers that cause the problem, it is the large number of them, the expectations they create, and their effect on the appreciation of value for photography.
There are a few photographers around here who advertise on Craigslist. Quite a few of them quote fixed prices. With very few exceptions, the work they illustrate their ads with struggles to achieve mediocrity (at best). And yet, they have an effect on potential customers' pricing expectations.
 
  • awty
  • Deleted
benjiboy said:
I have never had any ambition to be a pro. I enjoy my photography too much it would spoil it for me.
Click to expand...
Back when I worked in a camera store, we had a customer who loved to shoot "nature". One day he brought in a slide of a Mountain Goat, standing on a pinnacle of rock, illuminated by the setting sun. It was beautiful. We all told him that he should send the picture to National Geographic and they would probably pay him for it. I never forgot his answer. No, I will never "sell" any of my pictures because if I did, from then on, I would think about whether I could possible sell any picture that I took, ruining a good hobby. Something to think about........Regards!
 
Class will out and the very best will attract clients prepared to pay a premium for their services.

Where technology has had a big impact is to remove the economic restrictions to becoming a journeyman. It used to be that simply owning the kit would get you work. Learn as you earn. True for guitarists and drummers as well as photographers.

Now that kit is cheap and plentiful, there are far more journeymen than there is work. What's rare is people that get amazing results with the same kit as a journeyman. Those people get plenty of work. I know of a film maker that took to videoing weddings to pay the bills. His work shines compared to others and he is fully booked.
 
MattKing said:
It isn't the individual photographers that cause the problem, it is the large number of them, the expectations they create, and their effect on the appreciation of value for photography.
Click to expand...

dang that george eastman ! that newfangled brownie made it so everyone's a camera-fiend with all that kodaking.
 
Since the dawn of photography (or at least George Eastman's Brownie), amateurs have taken better photos than professionals. But there's a big difference between getting lucky with one shot out of hundreds (or now with digital, thousands) and being relied on the "get the shot" time after time, often under adverse conditions.

But "familiarity breeds contempt". As photography becomes more accessible to all, there's less appreciation for the craft. How many people under 30 today have actually looked at a photograph other than on their computer or phone? Or have looked at a photograph on any medium for more than 30 seconds? There has been a diminution of the photograph from a quality standpoint even as it's appreciation as a communication medium has increased.
 

Let’s not overlook Nicole Boening McGrade, Valerie Yaklin-Brown and Suzanne Revy.

... and many others never active on this forum.
 
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