Selenium Toning - staining & blotches - solved!

[mr rusty]

Ever since I have been selenium toning, particularly Lith, I have sometimes been troubled by blotches & staining. Having read the various solutions and tried different washing processes, I can say that full archival wash and dry seems to be the only solution for 100% stain free toning. Just thought others might like to know my experience. My chems are MG developer, rapid fix and ilford selenium toner.

 

[Bill Burk]

Interesting mr rusty,

You might have run across my solution to the same problem, which is just about the same as yours: sufficient wash before selenium toner.

What we have in common is rapid fix. People who don't have this problem use an alkaline fix.

What I do differently, I don't dry the prints, I just wash them sufficiently.

 

[StephenT]

mr rusty, could you be a little more descriptive about the staining issue and your solution? I have experienced some staining as well with Ilford Selenium Toner at 1+4, but reduced the dilution to 1+8 and the staining issue cleared up. I was beginning to think the toner concentrate was going bad. I still don't know why 1+4 from a new bottle didn't stain but does now the solution has aged.

I use LPD 1+3, Eco Pro Neutral Fix 1+4, hypo clear AFTER toning. I used to mix the toner with the hypo clear - could that be the cause of the purple staining on the back of the print??

 

[Bill Burk]

The stains I get are yellowish tinting of the paper, this is one extreme example where I barely rinsed the print after fixing...

Most of the time when I get staining, it is overall, and it is less severe than this. But it was always associated with "abbreviated" washing.

 

[K-G]

Sufficient wash is important but so is also to use fresh fix and DON'T overestimate its capacity. If you use HCA-solution before washing, this also helps to keep the process on the alkaline side .

Karl-Gustaf

 

[smieglitz]

I don't know the composition of the Ilford toner, but I've had success with Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner (usually around 1+6) when I take the print directly from the second fixer into the toning bath. No rinse, HCA, or wash before the toner. The rapid fixer is ammonium thiosulfate and that is a major component of the KRST also. This procedure kills the toner more rapidly than using the normal rinse, HCA, wash before the toner, but I don't recall ever having stains. The procedure must lower the pH of the toner and it will eventually cause a precipitate to form, but I've also found it to enhance split-toning effects. If I were not interested in split-toning, I'd go the normal route (but eliminating the drying step after a thorough wash).

After rereading the OP, I note that rinse, HCA, and thorough wash cycles should both precede and follow the normal toning step.

 

[mr rusty]

mr rusty, could you be a little more descriptive about the staining issue and your solution

The original post says it all really. In the past I have troubled with blotches when toning, particularly when lithing when I use Moersch easylith instead of MG, but same rapid fixer and toner)

You can see the effect in the sky of this print

(there was a url link here which no longer exists).

I had tried partial washes, toning straight from fixer etc but nothing worked.

I have found that a full wash (which for me is 1hr in a patterson print washer as Ilford guideline - I don't use HCA), followed by drying, gives me a print that tones without stains and blotches. There may be other solutions, but this is working for me!

I should add that the prints I usually tone, whether straight prints or lith, and where I see the problem are usually either on Foma or Slavich FB paper.

 

[StephenT]

smieglitz.............are you saying fix, rinse, HCA, wash, then tone, rinse, HCA and wash?

 

[smieglitz]

smieglitz.............are you saying fix, rinse, HCA, wash, then tone, rinse, HCA and wash?

No.

Either:

1) fix, tone, rinse, HCA, wash (my preference for split-toning)

or

2) fix, rinse, HCA, wash, tone, rinse, HCA, wash (as you've asked...what I was referring to as the "normal" procedure...ambiguously described in the thread since most commented on steps before toning but not mentioning the post-toning sequence as well... insufficient clearing and washing after toning could also cause staining)

 

[StephenT]

Thanks!

 

[Bill Burk]

p.s. The stain that I see appears immediately while the print is in the toning bath. That's why I omitted the post-toning processing. My normal process is to wash thoroughly and dry following toning.