Sometimes when I tone I get some slight staining on the white edge of the print - FB paper. The consensus seems to be that it isn't necessary to do a full wash between fixer and toner, and I usually only wash for 2-5 minutes in my paterson washer before toning and then do the full wash.
Q. is it conceivable that with fixer becoming used, the residual silver in the used fixer is enough to cause staining if not washed out completely when toned?
I really need to experiment with new/used fixer and see if this is a factor. Or maybe i should just do a full wash before I tone.
Thoughts?
Yes. Used fixer leaves semi-soluble silver/thiiosuphate complexes these can cause staining. Use two bath fixing it's actually more economic.
Washing itself is not enough when the silver level rises too high in the fixer, this is why the second fixer bath works better as it has a very low level of silver.
Ian
Either do a full wash, or go straight from the fixer to the toner.
Jon
I'd guess Jon Shiu means that going straight from "second" fixer to toner is going to contaminate the toner, so you would treat the partly used toner differently than toner that always receives fully washed prints.
But I'd gather from what Ian Grant says, going from "used single bath" fixer to toner, is a bad idea with or without washing.
Now I wonder what problems might occur using a "fresh single bath" fixer, washing fully and then toning.
It's not about fresh or used fixer. My printing method involves 6 liters of freshly mixed Ilford Rapid Fixer 1:4 in which I fix from 10 to 16 20x24 FB prints within the hour and then discard on the spot. I expose all my prints and stack them in a box until I get 10 to 16.!
And that freshly mixed solution becomes unfresh very quickly. A second bath is capable of reliably removing the residuals the now-unfresh is less capable of removing.
Second bath fixing should be a given in all cases IMO.
If it's that quick, then I guess we need a 4-bath system.
The whole point of the 2-bath method is to reuse the fresh bath as the second-bath during another session. In my case, there's no reusing at all.
Hypo tests agree with me so I'm comfy with my extrafresh one bath.
It's not about fresh or used fixer. My printing method involves 6 liters of freshly mixed Ilford Rapid Fixer 1:4 in which I fix from 10 to 16 20x24 FB prints within the hour and then discard on the spot. I expose all my prints and stack them in a box until I get 10 to 16. I then proceed to develop them one by one, and then fix them one by one. The fixer is always super fresh.
I've had this staining issue quite regularly. And often on the very first prints, which were obviously fixed in the freshest possible fixer. FB or RC, all the same.
Some papers were washed for 5 minutes, some others for 30 minutes. Regardless. I really don't know how to fix this. So far, I realized I had to dip my prints slowly in the selenium. And wash them an extra bit before throwing them into the selenium. But it's never guaranteed. Thank God, the stains are always on the edges, never inside the print!
It's not about fresh or used fixer. My printing method involves 6 liters of freshly mixed Ilford Rapid Fixer 1:4 in which I fix from 10 to 16 20x24 FB prints within the hour and then discard on the spot. I expose all my prints and stack them in a box until I get 10 to 16. I then proceed to develop them one by one, and then fix them one by one. The fixer is always super fresh. (No it isn't, since you've exceeded the capacity for optimum permanence at print 11 ...)
I've had this staining issue quite regularly. And often on the very first prints, which were obviously fixed in the freshest possible fixer. FB or RC, all the same.
Some papers were washed for 5 minutes, some others for 30 minutes. Regardless. I really don't know how to fix this. So far, I realized I had to dip my prints slowly in the selenium. And wash them an extra bit before throwing them into the selenium. But it's never guaranteed. Thank God, the stains are always on the edges, never inside the print!
I also dont quite get this two-fix-bath method.
On one side, manufacturers warn against any extra time in the fixer since it's very bad. Especially if the fixer is getting exhausted. Hard to wash, they say.
And then on the other side, a two-bath method involving a fresh and an exhausted bath and an extra bath time is seen as good? Yes, since the second bath ensures complete fixation and since the first bath is not really "exhausted" in this scenario. It does, however, require longer wash times.
I understand the idea behind the two bath method but Im not doing this. Theres no way I'll let my fb prints sit extra time in the fixer. A freshly mixed solution involving a low amount of prints is the best way to go, IMO. To each his own, but two-bath fixing is not only used by the world's best printers, it is recommended by ALL manufacturers, including Ilford.
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