Selenium toning Ilford multi warmtone

blansky · Sep 24, 2005

Has anyone noticed variations in the amount of "brown" or toning in Ilford Warmtone Multi.

I use the same developer, LPD, at the same dilution, and tone in Kodak Rapid Selenium toner for around 4-10 minutes, depending on how "saturated" the color shift is.

Lately, 16x20 and 20x24 prints seem to be varying shades of toning. Some prints I even retone in 1-4 instead of the usual 1-9 to get more "color", but to no avail.

I look at prints I've done at different times this year and some are a deep brown/eggplant and others are toned to a far lesser degree. Most Of my prints are considered low key and a lot of dark. I realize that selenium will deplete but if the print is not browning, very much I will add more selenium to the mix and it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Anyone else noticed this happening.

Michael

blackmelas · Sep 24, 2005

I get a definite split with Ilford WTFB and KRST 1+9 where I can watch the brown "walk" across the lower midtones during toning. If I'm not careful, I'll only find that variation the next morning after the print has dried. But as far as a variation in color or time it takes to tone, no. But then I tend to use the Selenium until its completely exhausted, so variations in the time it takes to reach a certain color I say are the result of freshness of the solution.
Best regards,
James

smieglitz · Sep 24, 2005

blansky said:
...Anyone else noticed this happening...

No.

Joe

Rob Archer · Sep 24, 2005

I've noticed that Ilford paper in particular will tone unevenly if it is not agitated enough. I usually tone in 1+9 for 10 minutes, which just gives a slight 'plummy' tint.

blansky · Sep 24, 2005

It's not uneven toning on the prints,but if I were to place 10 different prints side by side, they would have a different amount of toning. Even though they were all low key, fairly contrasty prints.

This is even with adding more selenium to the mix if they weren't toning deep enough. I doubt that it's depeleted selenium under this scenario.

Most prints I don't tone by time but by amount of toning. If 4 minutes at 1-9 gives me a deep tone, I will pull it. Sometimes over 10 minutes doesn't get a deep tone, so I may add more selenium and it still doesn't seem to make it go deeper.

On weakly toned prints I've even dumped the toner and mixed a new batch at 1-4 and still no change.

Thanks for the responses so far.

Michael

ilfordrapid · Sep 25, 2005

Blansky,
It could be a couple of things. It is possible that you are fixing your prints to long, or the print may not be getting washed long enough before toning. Adding more toner to the exhausted toner may be canceling it's self out. I find that when I tone in Selenium after about four 16X20's I need to make fresh toner, I use 1 to 20 Dil. If you are using hypo Clear in your wash time before toning that could be also inhibiting the selenium. I hope that I have helped you in some way

photomc · Sep 25, 2005

Michael, if I understand what you are saying..you see a change in prints from previous print sessions, correct? Would question first, since you say the developer LPD, is the same, is it from a new batch since you noticed it? 2nd, is the paper from newer lot numbers, since the re-org of Ilford? Of course the fixer should be checked as well as the toner, but it really sounds to me you have checked most of the obvious possibilities. Why not contact Ilford and see what they have to say, sure they would be interested in hearing about this.

Do let us know if you find the cause or if there might be a slight change in formulation.

ContaxGman · Sep 25, 2005

Were the prints all printed at the same contrast grade? I've noticed that softer grades tend to be warmer than harder grades in all variable contrast papers I've used, although I haven't worked with MGWT enough to notice whether that difference carries through the toning stage. Just a thought - maybe not even a good one because it is past my bedtime. Good luck figuring this one out.

titrisol · Sep 26, 2005

I've noticed tht with both Ilford MG-WT and AGFA MCC when processed n LPD.
I try to tone to completion in Paterson Acutine Selenium 1+4 (just leave the print there for 15-20 minutes) unless I want to split with Viradon

the only factors I have figured out so far:
- Dilution of LPD -> the more diluted the warmer image and the most susceptible to be purple or borwn
- Age of the developer -> same as above

Also the exhaustion of the selenium may prove to be an issue???

davidh · Aug 14, 2006

blansky said:
Has anyone noticed variations in the amount of "brown" or toning in Ilford Warmtone Multi.

Anyone else noticed this happening.

Michael

Yes, I've seen it. I use Berg rapid selenium mixed 1:9, and I've seen variance during printing. Some go very brown at 6 minutes, others are more pleasingly toned, and one or two prints didn't tone much at all - in the same solution from the same box of paper. Weird. I've checked the temperature of the solution and that isn't varying. I use MGFB .44 (pearl finish).

I've not found the cause yet.

David

engbobs · Aug 14, 2006

I have noticed that some folks indicate washing after fixing then toning. I have found it is more effective to proceed from the NON hardening fixer to the toning bath. I use rapid selenium at 1:10 for ten minutes and find it consistent and yields satisfactory depth of tone. It is my understanding from several published sources that the toning is more effective in an acidic environment hence direct from the fixer to the toner. I have not encountered difficulty in toning Ilford MG papers either fiber RC.

Selenium toning Ilford multi warmtone

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