Selenium toner toxicity - reading msds

and people go into seizures from ingesting large quantities of water too...

Gerald C Koch said:

........Selenium is excreted from the body as foul smelling organic compounds in the sweat and the breath. So even a sublethal dosage has its problems.....

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Given selenium's position on the periodic table so it's chemically similar to sulphur, it's no surprise that it forms smelly compounds, analogous to the smelly sulphur compounds with which we are all so familiar.

miha said:

Any help on how to interpolate these data to a darkroom worker would be much appreciated.

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The same as with any photographic chemicals: do not drink it, keep it away from children and stupid people, make sure it cannot be confused with beverages, do not bath your fingers in the toner and use safety gear.
And if you get a drop on your skin during processing, wash it off with fresh water and live on happily thereafter.

Yes, do not use beverage bottles. And if children are in house or may come on visit, keep chemicals locked.
Though I assume scented and coloured houshold chemicals would be more attractive to children than our stuff.

jnanian said:

and people go into seizures from ingesting large quantities of water too...

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Sadly a fair few people died in the early rave years from drinking too much water after taking MDMA. What is shocking is that it doesn't take as much as people think, I was at one in the early 90s where a lad died after drinking too much water, the story ended up in the national press at the time. The thing is when its really hot and your jumping about like crazy for 6 hours you sweat like mad, easily need a good couple of litres, ISTR he drank something like 5 or 6. A quick google of this condition indicates that a few people have died during endurance sports this way, very sad.

Gerald C Koch said:

The danger to photographers would through absorption thru the skin. Wear nitrile gloves when working with it.

The toxicity varies with the laboratory animal whether it be mouse, rat or rabbit. It's not just a matter of body weight. So the values given are only advisory. However whenever a LDLo value (lowest lethal human dose) is given it represents one established human death.

Selenium is excreted from the body as foul smelling organic compounds in the sweat and the breath. So even a sublethal dosage has its problems.

Contact with toner and acids generates hydrogen selenide, a poisonous gas.

Use with adequate ventilation.

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It states a pretty low WEL on that SDS. Here in the UK these Europe wide agreed WEL are applied via CoSHH regulations, one would have to analyse the method of work and be convinced (by monitoring really) that the combination of measures keeps any workers exposure below WEL, as Gerald's last point to end there is quite telling really, ventilation and control of fumes is so so important and we are talking about controlling it to really tiny exposure levels. I don't know what things are like where you are Miha but our Engineering company is fairly small so we have used a specialist company in the past to help us with workplace safety, I think in your case I would definitely be contacting the Dr named on that SDS as a start.

AgX said:

I stand corrected (how embarrasing, too stupid, read percentage, calculated promille...):

It is 10ml-50ml.

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No problem at all Agx. Much better to misscalculate a toxic dose - than experimental use to find out.
with regard

Better to drink beer...

NJH said:

Sadly a fair few people died in the early rave years from drinking too much water after taking MDMA. What is shocking is that it doesn't take as much as people think, I was at one in the early 90s where a lad died after drinking too much water, the story ended up in the national press at the time. The thing is when its really hot and your jumping about like crazy for 6 hours you sweat like mad, easily need a good couple of litres, ISTR he drank something like 5 or 6. A quick google of this condition indicates that a few people have died during endurance sports this way, very sad.

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Seen it cycling in Texas. There's a yearly 100 mile ride in August called the "hotter then hell", thousands of people at the start line. Knew a girl who trained very hard for it and was in great shape. She drank as much water as possible during the ride (102+ °f out). What happens with a 5-6 hour workout like that is you sweat-out salts and electrolytes. Water just helps wash them out of you - so Gatorade and other sports drinks (which research indicates are unnecessary for the average run or workout, they just add sugars and calories) become vital - you need the salts and carbs, or at least a DIY electrolyte drink (usually grape juice, water and salt). Without the electrolytes, the electrical signals between brain cells and muscles become inefficient (as I understand it, it's like your wiring loses conductivity). She collapsed a few hours in and was in a coma for days. She said it took 6 months for her to be functioning normally again, a year to get to the same level of cycling.

This is more anecdotal, but many people find that once you've had a collapse like that (though usually less severe, I've seen people fall out of rides due to not hydrating enough - I watched the medics grab a woman, throw her on a cot, and dump buckets of ice water on her), you are much more susceptible to it. Get even close to low hydration and your body says "nuh-uh, not again" and shuts you right down. I've seen 2nd timers go down when it didn't seem nearly extreme enough out.

The human body depends on a certain level of sodium and potassium ions. These are necessary for electrical conduction along the nerve fibers. Too little sodium ions will cause muscle cramping and muscle weakness. Here in Florida I see all the nuts with the liter bottles of water. Too much water results in the condition called 'water intoxication' which can lead to death. The rule is drink water in moderation and only when thirsty.

You don't need to drink such things as Gator Ade as soft drinks typically contain 25 mg of sodium for each 12 ounces. Unless you are performing heavy labor this amount is sufficient. The figure is from my doctor.

john_s said:

Given selenium's position on the periodic table so it's chemically similar to sulphur, it's no surprise that it forms smelly compounds, analogous to the smelly sulphur compounds with which we are all so familiar.

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We looked after a lovely old Labrador occasionally for the in-laws. She was clearly close to that position on the periodic table. Her name was Molly which I often shortened to Moll when addressing her. After one particularly bad weekend I decided to call her Sel.

pentaxuser

I think the main thing with selenium toner is not to use it in a place where it can't be cleaned up if it spills. You don't want a spill to dry out and make airborne selenium dust. I use it in the garage because if there was an accident I'd be able to clean up any spills better than if it sinks into a wood floor. Also, if you use it replenished, there's almost no waste, only the wash water.