selenium toner problem

Selenium Toner


I have been getting some really yucky crud in my selenium toner. I normally mix with tap water . I take the print directly from the second fix to the tone; strength doesn’t seem to matter; and then to a wash aid and then wash. The toner is filtered through a coffee filter back into a clean plastic jug and capped. A week or two later, depending, I may find a white slime floating in the solution when I pour it out also a few black flakes. I am at a loss as to how to prevent it other than one shot fresh solutions ( which would be really expensive). Time of year doesn’t seem to matter, as my darkroom is heated.
Any one else had this problem?

Typically, you will have this with older toner and subsequent re-use. Solution is to mix fresh, then when the crud forms, discard. This happens due to old solution, so just think of it as an indicator for a new mix. Typically, with a new mix, how long does it take for this to happen?

I would think about discarding the container also, if it is just cheap plastic (I use 1 quart plastic milk jugs). tim

re toner

I use plastic milk jugs for storage too. I will have to start a log on usage and date. An old Kodak data book put capacity at 80 8x10's per gallon. I didn't think I was any where near that limit.
The other question, which bugs me more, is what is that crud?

What make seleniumtoner are you useingplease.
I use Fotospeed toner at between 1:19 and 1:40 depending on on results required, mixed with tap water and stored in an air tight bottle. I get black blobs in the toner after a period of storage after inital use but this has no effect on further use and I disgard only when desired results take unacceptably long to achive. I do however wash all prints before toneing, tone wet prints and have used the same working strength toner for several months.
I have no knowlage of the Kodac toner never haveing used it but would be suprised if its keeping qualities were much different to the Fotospeed.
Hope this helpful regards Paul.

selenium toner

I am using Kodaks Rapid selenium..However I do not wash the prints before toning, but go right from the second fix into the toner. I experienced staining when I tried washing prior to toning.

It is normal for selenium toners to throw down a gray to black precipitate of metallic selenium with use. The remedy is to filter the solution before use. Eventually the solution becomes too dilute and should be discarded.

Don't know what the white slime could be, but, sodium selenite solutions will support the growth of bacteria. Dissolved gelatin from prints would also encourage this. I would either sterilize or discard the container and make a new solution.

You need to wash thoroughly before toning, especially if you are using a hardening fixer. The hardening fixer can cause more rapid exhaustion of your toner, and strange toning effects on the print. Ideally you should use a non-hardening fixer with any toners. What fixer are you using?

I was getting some staining recently and consulted Howard Bond who is a master photographer and printer, and teacher. Occasionally my toner batch would go bad with floating debris and a ugly color, but no white growth. His technique is to mix Kodak Rapid Selenium toner with wash aid. Liquid fixer is mixed without hardener. Prints are stored in water during the session without proper washing. Prints are taken from the water storage tray directly into the toner, then treated with wash aid, then properly washed. Periodically black precipitate in the bottom of the toner bottle is removed from the mixture, and fresh toner is added to recharge the strength of the toner. The toner is apparently used for quite some time. I have been using this system for 2-3 months with success. However, the number of prints that I tone is rather insignificant. He advises me that the wash aid mixed with the toner provides a proper ph level to avoid staining. It may also avoid bacteria growth, not sure.

I've experienced similar growths in stored working solutions of pure sodium thiosulphate used as a second fixer prior to toning. I suspect biologicals at work and discard the solution when they show up.

Peter Gomena

Loren Sattler said:

I was getting some staining recently and consulted Howard Bond who is a master photographer and printer, and teacher. Occasionally my toner batch would go bad with floating debris and a ugly color, but no white growth. His technique is to mix Kodak Rapid Selenium toner with wash aid. Liquid fixer is mixed without hardener. Prints are stored in water during the session without proper washing. Prints are taken from the water storage tray directly into the toner, then treated with wash aid, then properly washed. Periodically black precipitate in the bottom of the toner bottle is removed from the mixture, and fresh toner is added to recharge the strength of the toner. The toner is apparently used for quite some time. I have been using this system for 2-3 months with success. However, the number of prints that I tone is rather insignificant. He advises me that the wash aid mixed with the toner provides a proper ph level to avoid staining. It may also avoid bacteria growth, not sure.

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I do something similar to this. I never store selenium toner because I would spend more time cleaning all of the stains and filtering the solution than I would spend toning prints.

I process prints in the normal sequence with 2 fixing baths and no hardener. Then PermaWash and a regular wash. For toning, I wait until I have a volume of processed, dried prints, say 20-50. Then I mix KRST with Permawash for the toning mixture. I soak the dried prints in Permawash, then tone with the KRST + Permawash solution. Usually I do that in batches of up to 8 11x14 inch prints at a time, interleaving them like processing sheet film in trays. If I use concentrated toner I do just a few sheets at one time so that the toning color does not get away from me. Then I rinse the toned prints in fresh water before transferring to the archival washer. No staining problems and much more time efficient than I used to be.

Also, I use single tray processing. The Permawash and the KRST + Permawash solutions are stored in 5000 ml plastic beakers. I pour the Permawash into the tray, then put in the prints one at a time so they don't stick to one another. I use disposable latex gloves and then rotate the prints, interleaving them in the tray. I use a tray one size larger than the paper. When the time is up, I dip my wet hands in a small bucket of clean water to wash off the gloves, lift the tray to pour the Permwash back into the beaker, and then pour in the KRST+Permawash solution and repeat the procedure. This greatly reduces selenium stain in the tray and in the beaker. Also reduces the amonium smell because the toner spends most of the time in a beaker rather than a large open tray. Also reduces handling of prints with tongs. Whenever I used tongs I would mar the emulsion somehow, even being very careful.