Lukas Werth said:I never tried with van Dykes, but I tried to tone salt prints and kallitypes in selenium:
roy said:Susan Huber has a number of toned prints made on POP on her wehsite.
Lukas Werth said:I never tried with van Dykes, but I tried to tone salt prints and kallitypes in selenium: while I wouldn't call it a foul color, the images all turned out bleached and flat, all my trials even more so than the one posted by Scooterm, and went into the bin.
smieglitz said:It would appear that what others are calling "toning" with selenium and a variety of alternative printing processes is really "bleaching" of the fine silver image.
Joe
smieglitz said:Yes. That also has been my experience with selenium and POP.
It would appear that what others are calling "toning" with selenium and a variety of alternative printing processes is really "bleaching" of the fine silver image.
As an aside, I've also found the practice of adding a bit of dichromate to the wash water as a contrast agent in alternative silver processes simply another method of bleaching details from the print without what I would consider an improvement in quality.
Joe
photomc said:Joe, that is not my understanding of the toning with selenium and VanDykes..but what you describe does occur if unless you use a very dilute toner. On the VDB's I have done and toned with KRST (do more in LiPd now) the toner was dil. 2+1000. A stronger dilution will cause some bleach back because of the thiosulfate in the toner - which is much like the hypo used in the first place. If left in the hypo to long, the print will bleach back as well (which you probably know - sorry if this seems redundent).
sanking said:...but I did see some selenium ttoned kallitype prints once that were very nice...However, given the short time in the toner and the very weak bath I have some concerns about how effective the treatmenet was.
Sandy
smieglitz said:It appears Huber's prints are all gold-toned printing-out-paper which has absolutely no relation to the question I've asked about selenium-toning Van Dyke Brownprints.
smieglitz said:Sandy,
Did the maker of those prints have an untoned comparison print displayed with the toned ones? I have seen variations is VDB colors caused by variables unrelated to toning and it sounds as if that may have been a possibilty with the prints you refer to especially given your ending comment above and your personal experiences.
What I'm getting at is perhaps there was no actual toning effect caused by the selenium (e.g., the toner was dead, exhausted, too short, too dilute, etc.) but rather something like a difference in pH of the water on two different occasions, aging of the liquid emulsion, length of time in the wash, etc., might be the variable causing a color shift in the prints you saw. A valid comparison where everything else was held equal between a selenium-treated and untreated VDB done at the same time would be informative. Otherwise, I think we all may just be speculating and attributing apparent changes to the wrong variable.
Joe
Jim Noel said:I regularly tone Van Dyke, kallitype and albumen prints with selenium or gold. In the case of both toners there is some bleaching which must be accounted for in calculation of the printing time.
Toning is always done just prior to fixing.
As for color change, yes there is some very slight change with VD, more with kallitype, and more still with albumen. In none of these cases is the color change severe.
smieglitz said:The new Viradon formula apparently lacks selenium. Its active ingrediant appears to be sodium polysulfide. (See: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...gfa/Agfa_Viradon_Toner.pdf+viradon+msds&hl=en)
So, experimenting with Viradon again doesn't seem particularly applicable to the original question of selenium-toning VDBs. ...
Jim Noel said:I regularly tone Van Dyke, kallitype and albumen prints with selenium or gold. In the case of both toners there is some bleaching which must be accounted for in calculation of the printing time.
Toning is always done just prior to fixing.
As for color change, yes there is some very slight change with VD, more with kallitype, and more still with albumen. In none of these cases is the color change severe.
smieglitz said:The prints were:
1) untoned print, emulsion single-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
2) untoned print, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
3) untoned print, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish white;
4) print toned before fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+4 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
5) print toned after fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+4 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
6) print toned before fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+50 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
7) print toned after fixing using Kodak Polytoner 1+50 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
8) print toned before fixing using Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner 1+500 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
9) print toned after fixing using Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner 1+500 dilution, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
10) print toned before fixing using Clerc's Gold Toner, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite;
11) print toned after fixing using Clerc's Gold Toner, emulsion double-coated on Cranes Kid Finish ecruwhite. (My SOP.)
photomc said:... One comment on the attached image with the different toners, could not read the data, is there a way to make that information larger?...
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