Selenium Ilford MGIV FB

bobbysandstrom · Jul 28, 2005

I have some fixed/washed/dried prints on ilford MGIV FB that I wish to selenium tone. I've been using Kodak Polymax FB and toning 1-10 for 3-6 minutes and LOVE the DMAX increase and slight slight tone shift. All I really care about is the increased DMAX. How can I achieve this with the ilford paper (dilution/time/temp)? Or should I say, can I? I've already fixed with arista rapid fix which is hardening.

Thanks

gareth harper · Jul 28, 2005

This has been discussed quite a few times already, so check the archives for more.

MGIV fibre is not a paper that reacts to Selenium readily, though it can be persuaded.
This is what I do. I dev in Ilford multigrade, ilfostop and fix it for one minute in Ilford rapid fix. Then it's a 20 minute wash in running water before toning.

I use KRS 1+4, at 22-25 degrees C, for 5 - 10 minutes. This increases D-max and gives the paper a blue/purple/charcoally look that suits my street/reportage style. I then wash for one hour again in running water.

I find that the RC paper while still not that keen to react with KRS does so much more readily than the fibre version.

Tom Stanworth · Jul 28, 2005

Bobby,

It is not a paper I use very much and it is very stubborn in all toners. However, it will increase in Dmax nicely, but wont show any shift until you have really drowned it in strong toner, shifting slightly aubergine. This lack of a colour shift is a benefit for many people I am sure. Dmax will increase just like any paper.

With selenium, I just go visual. Ambient temp until you can see it picking up density. Use an untoned identical print in water next to it for reference if you can.

AAhhh. Just saw the hardener bit. I never use hardener as it messes up toning and prints dont really need hardening unless they are maltreated?

gareth harper · Jul 28, 2005

It is not a paper I use very much and it is very stubborn in all toners.

Not so. I'm no toner expert but some toners work better with neutral and cold papers than they do with warm papers.
For example MGIV reacts very strongly to copper and blue toner.

You will get extra D-max with strong selenium and MGIV fibre, but it will not be as marked as it is with MGIV RC. Strange but true.

bobbysandstrom · Jul 28, 2005

Thank You

Thanks Everyone for your time and consideration.

Bob

aldevo · Jul 28, 2005

gareth harper said:
It is not a paper I use very much and it is very stubborn in all toners.

Not so. I'm no toner expert but some toners work better with neutral and cold papers than they do with warm papers.
For example MGIV reacts very strongly to copper and blue toner.

You will get extra D-max with strong selenium and MGIV fibre, but it will not be as marked as it is with MGIV RC. Strange but true.

I don't think that's at all unusual. I've found most RC papers show a color shift more readily than their FB counterparts.

Tom Stanworth · Jul 29, 2005

gareth harper said:
It is not a paper I use very much and it is very stubborn in all toners.

Not so. I'm no toner expert but some toners work better with neutral and cold papers than they do with warm papers.
For example MGIV reacts very strongly to copper and blue toner.

You will get extra D-max with strong selenium and MGIV fibre, but it will not be as marked as it is with MGIV RC. Strange but true.

By stubborn, I do not mean that there is no change, but that it is slow to change. I agree many cold papers produce arguably prettier results in certain toners (such as sepia for cold papers, esp if only partial toning). MG1V is relatively slow to tone in most toners from my experience. One much colder paper such as Forte Polygrade is very fast indeed...behaving like a warm paper in selnium - going plum in a blink!

As I stated, MG1V tones fine in selenium for Dmax, it just takes longer than comparable papers from my experience.

mikeb_z5 · Jul 29, 2005

gareth harper said:
This has been discussed quite a few times already, so check the archives for more.

MGIV fibre is not a paper that reacts to Selenium readily, though it can be persuaded.
This is what I do. I dev in Ilford multigrade, ilfostop and fix it for one minute in Ilford rapid fix. Then it's a 20 minute wash in running water before toning.

I use KRS 1+4, at 22-25 degrees C, for 5 - 10 minutes. This increases D-max and gives the paper a blue/purple/charcoally look that suits my street/reportage style. I then wash for one hour again in running water.

I find that the RC paper while still not that keen to react with KRS does so much more readily than the fibre version.

This is what I do as well.

gareth harper · Jul 29, 2005

mikeb_z5 said:
This is what I do as well.

I was begining to think I was the only one doing this. I think it was a chap called Jim Vanson on photonet who suggested it to me a couple of years ago. Up until then I just assumed you put MGIV fibre through selenium for archival protection. Tried this and ......wham bam thank-you mam! It works brilliantly, at least I think so. It really suite my street/event/photo-journo style quite well. I do this with every MGIV print I do RC or fibre.

Tom, if you want to copper or blue tone MGIV fibre, use a very weak solution, MGIV tones very rapidly in these toners, much quicker I found than Ilford warmtone, which will tone in them but not quite as quickly.

Selenium Ilford MGIV FB

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