Selectol Soft , question about modern papers behavior

Hi there ,
In "the print " , Ansel Adams says that selectol soft (being a metol only based developer ) would devolved first the high values than slowly move to the darker values (reason why the addition of dektol might be necessary to achieve more/strong contrast )...

i tried formulary's " TD-31 substitute for selectol soft" ( they claim it to be very similar ) but my prints definitely are developing first the darker values than eventually the higher values ... (so pretty much like any other developer i tried ...)

i wonder if perhaps the behavior explained by Ansel Adam in the book would only apply to older emulsion type of papers ? ( i tried only various current multigrade paper , few brands brands )... or perhaps the formulary's TS-31 selector soft is not quite the same as Adams described ?

does anyone have experience with selector soft developing higher values first than darker values ?

thanks!

g

I've only ever used it recently with Ilford Galerie graded paper and it worked as it always has; and, as Adams and others have described.

Alan9940 said:

I've only ever used it recently with Ilford Galerie graded paper and it worked as it always has; and, as Adams and others have described.

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thanks alan

1-you mean ilfobrom galerie ? ( i am asking since in the book adams talks about ilford galerie and ilford ilfobrom as 2 different paper ( but i see that today only ilfobrom galerie is still on sale )

2-may i ask which formula of selectol soft you use ?

3- to make sure i am understanding correctly : so if you printed black borders , those should appear last (meaning right after any other lighter value) when using selectol soft ... correct ? ... for me the black border (along with any other others pure blacks, if any) appear first ...

i wonder if the formulary ""D31 subsistute for selectol ""soft is not quite "metol only " (aside for sodium and potassium off course)


thanks!

g

GABRIELE TURCHI said:

thanks alan

1-you mean ilfobrom galerie ? ( i am asking since in the book adams talks about ilford galerie and ilford ilfobrom as 2 different paper ( but i see that today only ilfobrom galerie is still on sale )

2-may i ask which formula of selectol soft you use ?

3- to make sure i am understanding correctly : so if you printed black borders , those should appear last (meaning right after any other lighter value) when using selectol soft ... correct ? ... for me the black border (along with any other others pure blacks, if any) appear first ...

i wonder if the formulary ""D31 subsistute for selectol ""soft is not quite "metol only " (aside for sodium and potassium off course)


thanks!

g

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G,
Years ago I used tons of Ilfobrom paper. It was a "budget" paper for those that didn't want to shellout the extra for Galerie. Truth is that Ilfobrom was, in my opinion and many others, an outstanding fiber base paper. I used it in combination with HC-110 dil. B, Tri-X 35mm and developed in Dektol for excellent prints. It also toned very well and every bit as good as Gallerie in Selenium. I really wish Ilford offered the same Ilfobrom paper that I used in years past. because I'd be using it right now. Yes, it was a graded paper, but it sure seemed very easy to get what I wanted with just grade 2 and grade 3. I now use VC fiber based papers, but would have no problem switching back to graded. In fact I found the old graded Ilfobrom very easy and simple to work with. Later I started exploring different paper developers with Ilfobrom and settled on Dektol as a mainstay and Selectol and Dr. Beers for getting into the half-grades. I do have to admit that its been so long ago that I don't really remember which developed out first, the highlight region or the shadows with Selectol. So I guess I'm not much help in your question. JohnW

I have just received the Dr Beers, and Selectol Soft kits from FF. I am using graded RC Aristo paper right now (for work prints), but I want to final print on #3 fiber Galerie, and the Foma graded fiber papers. I can try to answer your question when I get started with this stuff.

I use Ilford ID-3 which is identical in formula to D165 Selectol Soft, no problems with graded papers knock the contrast down by about a Grade. I've used Dr Beers in the past but use very little graded paper these days,in fact I hadn't used any since the 90'

So use the real thing, buy some raw chemicals ID-3/D165 is easy to mix best in two parts as it keeps far better. Ilford published the two part formula, if you'll use it up quickly the single part version is fine.

Ian

I think you are misunderstanding what is supposed to happen. Soft developers don't do what you are expecting- develop the highlights first. All developers will show the shadows first. Soft developers just won't develop the shadows fully which decreases the contrast.

I'm trying to find a replacement for selectal soft also and I try ed legacy pro selectal soft and was disappointed. It seems that it will only last as stock solution for 24 hours as a stock solution I'm trying photo formulary TD-31 its expensive 19.95 to mix 2-liters. Anchell's book THE DARKROOM COOKBOOK ON PAGE 141has the Ansco 120 formula which I mite try.

GABRIELE TURCHI said:

1-you mean ilfobrom galerie ? ( i am asking since in the book adams talks about ilford galerie and ilford ilfobrom as 2 different paper ( but i see that today only ilfobrom galerie is still on sale )

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Yes. Ilford Ilfobrom was a different paper and actually my main printing paper back in the day.

GABRIELE TURCHI said:

2-may i ask which formula of selectol soft you use ?

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I used this: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/750710-LegacyPro-Select-Soft-Paper-Developer-(Makes-1-Gallon)

GABRIELE TURCHI said:

3- to make sure i am understanding correctly : so if you printed black borders , those should appear last (meaning right after any other lighter value) when using selectol soft ... correct ? ... for me the black border (along with any other others pure blacks, if any) appear first ...

Click to expand...

Don't know...I don't print black borders.

Patrick Robert James said:

I think you are misunderstanding what is supposed to happen. Soft developers don't do what you are expecting- develop the highlights first. All developers will show the shadows first. Soft developers just won't develop the shadows fully which decreases the contrast.

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thanks patrick

that was pretty much my doubt ... ...but why than adams in the book writes that Selectol soft (being metol only) would develop the higher values first than slowly moves to the shadows... allowing full high values development and contrast control with timing ? ...in my tests ( couple crazy contrasty negatives that i am trying hard to save) if i pull the print out out earlier (when shadows are ok and not too crunchy ) the midtones/ highlight values are not fully developed there ... which is why i am thinking that perhaps the behavior described by adams might not apply to all current papers ( especially multigrade )


ps: may i ask why you guys might prefer single graded papers vs multigrade ? it is it s a workflow ease of process habit thing? (for instance is less likely to screw things u i think ) ... or you can point out characteristics that you don't like of multigrade fiber papers ?

in the past have only tried to compare ilford ilfobrom grade 2 vs ilford multigrade FB warm tone ...i printed the multigrade using a grade 2 filter and aside for difference in paper speed ( the MG warm tone require 2/3 of stop more exposure) the difference i have noticed was small ... perhaps the ilfobrom was a tad richer in the mid/high values ..but nothing i could not easily adjust in the multigrade to match it ...
but i have only tested one in one image ... certainly not enough to have a verdict ( perhaps i got lucky and that specific image was easy enough for both the 2 papers ...)

so i guess the question is : why some of you guys decide to stay away from multigrade paper ?

thanks!

g

Patrick Robert James said:

I think you are misunderstanding what is supposed to happen. Soft developers don't do what you are expecting- develop the highlights first. All developers will show the shadows first. Soft developers just won't develop the shadows fully which decreases the contrast.

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That’s how I understand it as well and how I use it.

I am disappointed to hear that the Legacy Pro only lasts 24 hours; I bought quite a bit of it as my supply of the original is dwindling. I will have to ix my own.

Renato Tonelli said:

That’s how I understand it as well and how I use it.

I am disappointed to hear that the Legacy Pro only lasts 24 hours; I bought quite a bit of it as my supply of the original is dwindling. I will have to ix my own.

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Thanks

Ps:the formulary TD31 last a while , I have mixed the stock 3 weeks ago and it’s still ok (and it’s even kept in a plastic bottle 1/2 empty ) ... the working solution also seems to last few days if kept in bottle without air (as soon as the developer is not exhausted off course )

g

Ansco 120 Soft Working Paper Developer (from Darkroom Cookbook)

This formula is similar to the commercially prepared Selectol Soft. It has a longer tray life than the Kodak formula.

Water 125F 750 ml
Metol 12.3 gm
Sodium Sulphite 36 gm
Sodium Carbonate 36 gm
Potassium Bromide 1.8 gm
Cold Water to make 1 liter

For normal use, dilute 1:2; normal development time is two minutes

Note: This is an excellent formula for two tray development, where the first tray is a soft developer, and the second is either normal or high contrast.
For this application, dilute 1:4