Selectol as a film developer?

BradS · Aug 13, 2008

So yesterday I went on a big adventure in the city and came home with my daypack stuffed with a bunch of old photo chemicals (including three pounds of Sodium sulfite!). I felt a little like a robber...

Among this stash is a quart bag of Selector paper developer (not selectol soft). I'm pretty happy using Dektol and don't nee to confuse myself with another paper dev...so, was thinking about trying it with film.

Any suggestions? Looking around for a published formula, I found something that made me think that maybe it would be good diluted about 1+2 or 1+3. Anybody tried this or have any experiences to share?

Ian Grant · Aug 13, 2008

Well Ilford ID-3 is a soft working developer for films & papers and is very close to Selectol Soft. Selectol is more similar to D52 from memory

As Selectol is a warm tone developer then it should give finer grain with paper, with films you'd have to try it and see.

Ian

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 13, 2008

Selectol (Warm Tone Paper Developer) was the same as Kodak's D-52 Warm Tone Paper Developer.

D-52 is a Metol/Hydroquinone (MQ) developer and it could be used to develop film. You would need to test it - and you might or might not like the results.

Photo Engineer · Aug 13, 2008

Kodak literature equates Selectol, Dektol and D-52. It says that they are roughly equivalent except for some packaging differences, but otherwise give the same contrast and image tone. This statement comes from Kodak Databook J-1.

I would then use it for 3' at 1:3 or 7' at 1:7 as a starting point for film. It gives rather coarse grain and medium sharpness.

PE

Ian Grant · Aug 13, 2008

Comparing the actual Formulae D-52 has more Bromide and less Carbonate, so it will be a bit less vigorous and softer working and as Kodak state it will give slightly warmer tones with warm tone papers.

Exactly the same as the differences between Selectol & Dektol.

Ian

BradS · Aug 13, 2008

Hmm, yes. This is interesting. Comparing the formulae for D-52 and D-72 (assumed to be Selectol and Dektol respectively), they look very similar - excepting of course, the carbonate. I think I may just use it as a paper developer after all.

jim appleyard · Aug 13, 2008

You could donate it to the local high school???

Ian Grant · Aug 13, 2008

These little differences are often quite significant. it's surprising how small a change has such a different effect. The increase in bromide alongside the decrease in carbonate is the thev key.

Ian

removed account4 · Aug 13, 2008

too cool brad!

john

Photo Engineer · Aug 13, 2008

Yes, the carbonate differs by quite a bit, but the bromide is just slightly different, but Kodak equates both developers to Dektol. Interesting, but true.

PE

BradS · Aug 13, 2008

well, I went to mix up the selectol and...the contents of the package are quite brown. I think that is probably a bad thing. So, will have to try developing film with home brew...D-52 or D-72.

Expecting something other than fine grain but hoping for full box speed from 320TXP ???

dancqu · Aug 14, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
Yes, the carbonate differs by quite a bit, but the
bromide is just slightly different, but Kodak equates
both developers to Dektol. Interesting, but true. PE

Perhaps Dektol Soft? After very close examination?
The OP could tone down the developers activity by
adding bicarbonate of soda. I suppose Selectol is
long on hydroquinone compared with D-76. Dan

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 14, 2008

Dan: Compared to D-76, Selectol has a little less Metol, more than twice the Hydroquinone, and no Borax.

Also, D-76 has no Carbonate and Selectol does.

Kodak D-52 (Selectol):
Metol 1.5 grams
Hydroquinone 12.0 grams

Kodak D-76 :
Metol 2.0 grams
Hydroquinone 5.0 grams

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 14, 2008

Brown is BAD!

For film developing, I suggest you try Kodak D-76 rather than Kodak D-72 or Kodak D-52.

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 14, 2008

Brad, have you ever tried Kodak D-23.

Kodak D-23 is just Metol, Sodium Sulfite and water.

hywel · Aug 14, 2008

Tom Hoskinson said:
Brown is BAD!

For film developing, I suggest you try Kodak D-76 rather than Kodak D-72 or Kodak D-52.

I thought my ID-11 looked a bit brown when I mixed it last weekend. Still worked just fine. After I'd tested it on throwaway roll!

But I had far more fun testing a couple of other throwaway rolls in Ilford Multigrade Paper Developer. I would have tried Dektol or Selectol, except that MG is the only paper developer I have. Still fascinated three days later by the results so, Brad, give it a go and see, why not.

Hywel

Ian Grant · Aug 14, 2008

MG Paper dev won't be that bad as a film developer, its similar to PQ Universal but optimised for MG papers, to hel prevent a colour shift at different grades.

PQ Universal is recommended as a film developer particularly for Ilford Ortho film, it would be ideal for alternative process negatives as well. If used dilute 1+19, 1+29 or more it will give excellent fine grain. May & Bakers equivalent Suprol was used for B&W machine processing D&P films.

So using Dektol or Selectol at higher than usual dilutions should also give good reasonable grain, normal contrast negatives. There is a thread where someone was using Dektol hoping for grain and found it wasn't gibing particularly grainy negatives. (TThread was a few month ago)

Ian

Photo Engineer · Aug 14, 2008

It is not impossible to formulate one developer for both film and paper. I cite Kodak Universal MQ and also Versatol developer. Both were quite good in their day. I used many bottles of Versatol and used the Universal MQ in the Kodak Tri-Chem-Pak.

PE

juan · Aug 14, 2008

The first developer I ever used came in a kit from GAF/Ansco. I think it was labeled as Universal developer - anyway, you mixed a stock solution, then diluted that differently for film and paper. This must have been the mid-60s. My impression at the time was that it worked very well, but I suppose any image at all would have impressed me then.
juan

removed account4 · Aug 14, 2008

juan said:
The first developer I ever used came in a kit from GAF/Ansco. I think it was labeled as Universal developer - anyway, you mixed a stock solution, then diluted that differently for film and paper. This must have been the mid-60s. My impression at the time was that it worked very well, but I suppose any image at all would have impressed me then.
juan

yep, gaf universal developer
1:5 film - 1:1, 1:2 paper

i used a can that made gallons and gallons and ...
made the best negatives and best prints with the stuff.
( and this was about 12 years ago ) .

nworth · Aug 14, 2008

As a film developer, it will probably resemble diluted D-19 - high contrast, but less than Dektol.

Ian Grant · Aug 14, 2008

nworth said:
As a film developer, it will probably resemble diluted D-19 - high contrast, but less than Dektol.

Not necessarily, D52, D72 or Dektol are not a contrast developers like D19, and dilute may well give quite normal results.

Photo Engineer said:
It is not impossible to formulate one developer for both film and paper. I cite Kodak Universal MQ and also Versatol developer. Both were quite good in their day. I used many bottles of Versatol and used the Universal MQ in the Kodak Tri-Chem-Pak.

PE

Same as for Ilford PQ Universal which is based on an older MQ formula. I processed a few thousand of shets of Ilford Ortho or FP4 in PQ Universal, and also some 35mm FP4 it gave just as fine grain as ID-11, D76 but a touch less film speed.

Ian

dancqu · Aug 14, 2008

dancqu said:
The OP could tone down the developers activity by
adding bicarbonate of soda. I suppose Selectol is
long on hydroquinone compared with D-76. Dan

Toning down a developer's activity. Edwal TST uses a
novel approach. The B part is sodium metabisulfite. When
added to the A part in varying proportions it reduces the ph
of the developer and by so deactivates the hydroquone.

Beer's and Adams' split version of Ansco 130 use another
approach. Both with out any of the B hydroquinone portion
are very much like Ansco 120. The later being in results very
likely the same as Selectol Soft; it also being a metol only
developer. Beer's 1, Ansco 120 and 130, and Selectol Soft
are all carbonated at start. So just add hydroquinone
to harden them. Dan

BradS · Aug 14, 2008

Tom Hoskinson said:
Brad, have you ever tried Kodak D-23.

Kodak D-23 is just Metol, Sodium Sulfite and water.

Yup. D-23 is my main film dev. Have been using it since reading abou tit here a couple of years ago. It's like a secret weapon against the California contrasty light. Love it. (oh, I add a little borax and use a little less Metol. so, I guess it's not really D-23 but...something else?) I use 5g Metol, 80g Sulfite, 5g Borax. Fool proof...and I need that kinda help.

nworth · Aug 15, 2008

Ian Grant said:
Not necessarily, D52, D72 or Dektol are not a contrast developers like D19, and dilute may well give quite normal results.

Same as for Ilford PQ Universal which is based on an older MQ formula. I processed a few thousand of shets of Ilford Ortho or FP4 in PQ Universal, and also some 35mm FP4 it gave just as fine grain as ID-11, D76 but a touch less film speed.

Ian

Paper developers are designed for much more contrast than the usual film developer, although universal developers can be designed and work well. If you look at the formulas, D-19 is roughly D-72 diluted 2:3.

Selectol as a film developer?

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