It also might be that you need the water as well in order for the mixture to have any longevity. Water is, of course, a chemical too.
And packaging, shipping and storing water costs money.
You may want to see if the Japan manufactured Ilfocolor C41 2.5l kit is available.For all the people saying it's easy to find kits without blix: I can't find a single 1L kit for sale in the US without blix at the moment. Bellini is out of stock and that seems a semi-permanent thing for them, with only one US supplier I can see. Jobo and Fuji Hunt are both 5L kits and Kodak is more reasonable at 2.5L but still larger than I actually need. Pretty odd.
You have to think that if these manufacturers realized that longevity was the main thing keeping people away from C41 development at home, they'd make a small kit designed for longevity and explain how to make it last 6 months, which is obviously possible, instead of two weeks. Bizarre.
It used to be, a long long time ago.You'd think the default would be to buy a concentrate and add water.
2. Purchasing habits – for years, people have been buying this product in larger packaging (for example, a 1-liter bottle). If a manufacturer intends to switch to concentrates, they must consider that potential buyers will perceive the product as a reduced quantity at the same price. They will feel cheated and may abandon the brand altogether. It's too much of a risk for the manufacturer.
3. Safety - A highly concentrated product can be very dangerous. For example, it can be highly corrosive and pose a risk of burns. However, the same product heavily diluted with water poses no such hazard.
Hi everyone,
I've been lurking the forum for some time. Now I want to ask a couple of questions. I was reading a thread from last year. In this comment koraks says that he considers powder C-41 kits to be second rate and "all quality C41 chemistry comes as liquid concentrates." A little later he explains that the issue is that they are blix-based kits (i.e. they don't have a separate bleach + fix).
Question 1: I am familiar with the problems with blix. Aside from that, is there any other downside to powder kits? The reason I ask is that the Rollei, Arista, and Tetenal (now reborm as Adox) C-41 kits are all liquid kits that have a blix instead of a separate bleach + fix. In other words, I am wondering if all of those options are equally sub-optimal.
Question 2: "Blix" usually comes in 2 or 3 parts. Can I just... not mix them and treat them as a separate bleach & fix? To attempt this, I need to figure out which part is the bleach and which one is the fixer. The Rollei and Adox/Tetenal kits have a blix in 2 parts. If you read the MSDS you'll see that:
1) For Rollei, Part 1 has a "European waste catalogue" of "bleach solutions and bleach fixer solutions" while Part 2 says "fixer solutions".
2) For Adox/Tetenal, "Ammonium thiosulphate" is listed under Part 2, so that must be the fixer. Part 1 includes a molecule with a long complicated name that looks like a cousin of PDTA and EDTA which usually is part of the bleach.
So I could keep Parts 1 and 2 separate and add water to each. Because bleach and fix are both "to completion", I can be conservative and leave the film in each bath for a few extra minutes.
Would this strategy work?
Thanks for the help.
I would recommend making up all 2.5 L and splitting it up into 5 full 500ml bottles. Or something similar. You can develop 3 or 4 films in each 500 mL then toss.
Yep, that's what I do. Works great. The developer keeps ages that way.
Quick follow-up... What about the bleach and fixer?
My general understanding is that bleach and fixer never go bad. The kit instructions (link) say that the concentrates and working solutions last 24 weeks, which is long enough, but it's not forever.
Would I be right in thinking that with the bleach & fixer, I don't need to worry about splitting them into 500 mL increments, filling the bottle to the top, or making the whole solution at once like you recommended for the developer?
I am going to order the kit today. I haven't yet accumulated the first batch of 4 color rolls but I'll be there soon (it takes me a while; I mostly shoot B&W). Right now I'm ordering enough containers to store all this chemistry. --- 2.5L x developer + bleach + fixer = 7.5L of chems!
What @mshchem says above, although I've personally never had Fuji CN16/C41 Negacolor RA N3 fixer go bad, not even in a half-full jug of concentrate. It's a very robust product. C41 bleach just doesn't die.What about the bleach and fixer?
What @mshchem says above, although I've personally never had Fuji CN16/C41 Negacolor RA N3 fixer go bad, not even in a half-full jug of concentrate. It's a very robust product. C41 bleach just doesn't die.
Btw, I use the color fixer for B&W (film + paper) as well.
That would be minilab chemistry, right?
If you read well, you notice the accounts are not necessarily conflicting. They're complementary and if you add the nuances, they turn out to be both correct. If you leave the dyes in CN film in a very acidic state (as during fixing in an acidic fixer), they lose part or all of their color (the go into a 'leuco' state). This is a reversible process (so it's not 'damage'). On modern color film, if you put the film in an acidic bath, you'll see the colors fade to an extent. If you then wash the film in water, you'll see the color return. Modern CN film can be fixed in an acidic fixer for all I know, provided you wash the film afterwards so the acidity is removed. It's possible that the dyes in very old CN films (pre-1990) might not revert to their colored state - mind you, I'm not sure on this and I expect that really, they will. I can't guarantee it.I've read conflicting information about using B&W fixers for color. Some posts in other forums have said that the acidity of many B&W fixers can damage the colour dyes. If acidity is an issue, one can buy neutral pH B&W fixers.
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