Seeking advice on how to complete DSLR film scanner solution - Have selected DSLR and Lens

loccdor

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Hi there, I'm a new user so please be patient with me if I run afoul of any rules.


After some research, I selected a Pentax K-1 (first version) DSLR and SMC Pentax-D FA 50mm F2.8 Macro lens in order to digitize mostly 35mm negatives, but also medium format up to 6x9.

This lens has a 49mm filter thread and does change length when focused. Working distance at 1:1 is approximately 5cm from the front of the lens.

I am seeking a compact and inexpensive (<$100) solution for:

a) A rigid and adjustable support between either the lens threads and the negative or the camera's tripod mount and the negative.
b) A means of holding the negative flat and steady when attached to the support of (a).

I have been looking at "Slide Copier" set ups but they seem to mostly attach to a camera lens mount and they also seem to be longer than the 5cm working distance required for 1:1.

I also looked at a "Tripod Center Axis" which is an adjustable bar that attaches on your tripod that has two tripod mounts on it. But I'm unclear on how I would attach a slide holder to one of those mounts, or which slide holder to use.

Copy stands are too large and bulky for my limited space, I need to be able to put my setup away in a box when not using it. They also seem to be expensive.

Thank you very much for your help.
 

koraks

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loccdor said:
Hi there, I'm a new user so please be patient with me if I run afoul of any rules.
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Welcome to Photrio, and no worries, you're doing fine!

Can't really help other than remarking that I've seen quite a few people get creative with an enlarger chassis and using that as a camera stand. It's usually possible with some simple hardware to attach a camera in the place of the enlarger head, which gives you a fairly sturdy setup (depending on the enlarger you start out with). Usually, a simple 35mm enlarger will suffice and these can often be had for cheap or even free if you search around a bit on places like Craigslist.

As to the film holder: this is slightly more tricky, but I've seen one or two ready-made products out there that do what you want. Alternatively, if you're going to scavenge an enlarger anyway, you could repurpose its negative stage for this purpose. The main caveat here is that 35mm film holders will be far easier to find than medium format, although those are also quite common. For use in an enlarger (as opposed to a digital scanning/copy stand), I've 3D printed film holders for formats from 35mm up to 4x5", and especially for 35mm and 6x6cm this works quite well. For perfect film flatness, you might want to use one or two pieces of glass; if using two (also on top of the negative), see if you can find suitable AN glass to prevent newton rings.
 

xkaes

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You don't mention if you have an enlarger or what your light source is, but that aside, I'd recommend a bellows with a slide copier. The main problem here is that it won't work with larger negatives.

The next suggestion is basically the same as koraks' -- get a medium format enlarger with a color head. These are cheap. Turn it on its side and attach the camera to the baseboard. You can use an enlarging lens on the enlarger -- or your macro lens. NO LENS ON THE CAMERA.
 

Chan Tran

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When I still had the Beseler CB-7 and it's dicrhoic color head I would put the head on the baseboard upside down. Put the negatran on top. Mount the digital camera on the enlarger. Use a Nikon Pb-6 bellow and an enlarging lens. It works fine that way.
 
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loccdor

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Thank you all for the suggestions, unfortunately I don't have space for an enlarger, and I think using a slide copier with bellows might be beyond the 5cm working distance at the end of the lens. I considered also some kind of 49mm to M42 adapter on the end of the lens, and maybe a short M42 extension tube, but then I'd need a way of attaching the negative carrier to the end. That might work for 35mm if I could find a suitable way of attaching it.
 

Alan9940

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Welcome to Photrio!

The setup to hold your camera can go from temporarily repurposing a tripod to more elaborate copy stand / enlarger setups, as other have already mentioned. The most economical is to use a tripod with reversible center column or articulating arm; something that enables you to get the camera close enough to the negative to focus properly.

A film holder for the negative is kind of like the mount for the camera. I've seen folks who make their own film holder out of matboard to those that spend lots of money on hardware from Negative Supply. One of the more economical film holders out there that does a good job, IMO, is the Essential Film Holder. I started out with this unit, but recently moved on to the Valoi system.

Not to throw a sales pitch at ya, but I have a basic copy stand and the Essential Film Holder with 35mm and all MF masks that I'd be willing to sell at a reasonable price. Let me know via DM, if you're interested.
 
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loccdor

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The picture with all the names of parts is a really helpful starting point, thank you! I couldn't search some of these things because I didn't know their names.
 

Cholentpot

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Here's my rig. I've since gotten rid of the black tape. The light pad is failing though, time for an upgrade soon.

Canon 550D (T2i) EF 100mm 2.8 maro, Huion light pad (Amazon), Yonguo radio controllers, random mix of negative holders, a copy stand built from an old enlarger, and an Ebay swivelhead mount for the camera.

Camera is loaded with Magic Lantern and tethered to lightroom classic. 35mm is inverted with Negative Lab Pro, 120, 4x5 etc are stitched and inverted the same way. It works very well.
 

xkaes

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Most bellows with slide copiers are designed for a 50mm lens to copy slides (the 24x36mm image) at 1:1 (1X) or somewhat cropped. If the ones you've looked at don't handle 1:1 and a little more, you need to look at other brands.

Here's one of the Minolta slide copiers. As you can see the slide copier can slide away from the lens & bellows.

 

titrisol

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The Pentax brand bellows are perfect from 0.7x onwards with a 50mm lens
I have the old M42 and works just fine
 

markjwyatt

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I use a Durst Slide Copier set-up. Took a little modification to get it right for 35mm and medium format, but in the end it works well for 1/2 frame 35mm through 6x6 cm. I use an APS-C digital camera and enlarging lenses (75 mm covers all, but I am going to try a little longer for 6x6 because 75mm is stretching the bellows capacity a bit- for your full frame 50mm enlarging lens might work, but not the macro because it would be hard to bypass the bellows). I bought the slide copier for like $65, but shipping was $85!


Durst_setup_sm by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr
 
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loccdor

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Regarding the camera and lens, it is a 50mm macro lens that handles 1:1 without any bellows. I didn't want to use a lens that required bellows because I heard that they tend to transfer a lot of dust to the camera sensor. Thanks again for all the replies.
 

markjwyatt

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This is true...
 
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loccdor

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Alan9940 said:
Not to throw a sales pitch at ya, but I have a basic copy stand and the Essential Film Holder with 35mm and all MF masks that I'd be willing to sell at a reasonable price. Let me know via DM, if you're interested.
Click to expand...

Hey Alan, would you be willing to sell just the essential film holder and masks? As a new user I can't send PMs yet, but you could send me one on flickr if you have it: https://www.flickr.com/photos/61055661@N08/
 
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loccdor

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shijan said:
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I studied your design for a while and will try out a slightly modified version of it - I didn't need the fine bellows adjustment so I left out the thumbscrew part and I replaced the upper two railblocks/long plate with a camera mount. Will let you know how it goes. It was more affordable than a copy stand and seems more adaptable.

 
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loccdor

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koraks said:
I've enabled it for you. Go ahead and send a PM to Alan.

Also, please try to limit transactions to the Classifieds as much as possible, in general. Thanks and good luck!
Click to expand...

Will do, thank you!
 

runswithsizzers

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Personally, I would think twice about buying a slide copier device, especially if you need to work with both 135 and 120 film. They tend to quite limiting, dictating what lenses, magnifications, and working distances can be used. I would not expect a slide copier to work with 6x9 negatives.

Your budget probably eliminates copy stands. You might find a used copy stand for less than $100, but that will probably require a lot of looking. I am sure someone can tell us about the great deal they got on a top-shelf Kaiser copy stand for almost free, but I've never had that kind of luck.

Do you have a tripod? With the central column inverted, a tripod can work, although it will be tedious to set up and align. And you will need to take care to limit vibrations.

If you are using a light table for illumination, something as simple as card stock or mat board can be used to make diy negative masks. But I would recommend trying to find metal negative carriers from an enlarger instead. They will be more convenient to use, and they are often affordable on the used market.

In the photo below, I am using a 100mm enlarger lens to copy a 6x6cm negative with a crop sensor camera -- so my working distance is quite long. The one great advantage of a tripod when copying film is how versatile they can be for accomodating different focal length lenses and different film formats. And chances are, most photographers already have one. My negative is simply sandwiched between two layers of mat board with appropriate sized cutouts. This rig is far from ideal, but I used it to copy many slides and negatives before upgrading several of the components. And it was a cheap way to get started. My present rig can be seen <here>

 
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xkaes

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That's the way to do it -- in a dark room, of course. No BIG slide-copier needed, just a bellows and a tripod. K.I.S.S.

But there are BIG slide copiers (not the ones connected to the end of a bellows) that handle 6x9 -- and larger -- format without any problem.
 

shijan

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Yep, you got the idea. I use thumb screw up-down mechanism only because my current bellows don't have up-down control. thumb screw system is very precise to adjust up/down but when i lock/unlock railblocks, they slightly change position and i don't like these tiny changes.
That Base plate should be OK if you simply mount camera on it. I only can suggest to remove rubbed pads. If they are too thick and camera don't touches to metal, your system will wobble and may became not parallel. All parts should touch metal to metal.
And one more suggest. To perfectly align angle in this system, just slide camera to bottom, touch floor by bottom edge of the lens and then lock camera with screw to Base plate. This method is way more precise than alignment by mirror reflection. Assume your light setup and film holder itself also parallel.
Overall if you want to use this system vertically with heavy camera and lens, mount everything as close as possible to rails axis.
Dual rod blocks at the bottom are really important. Single block can't hold rods perfectly. Tight everything well enough.
 

fiddle

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I built one from a piece of aluminum extrusion mounted to my wall over my bench, extrusion slide with lock with a ballhead mounted on it.
Works pretty good, extremely cheap to the alternatives too.
 

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markjwyatt

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My slide copier set-up is not much bigger than the area the tripod is taking so works for me. It is always ready to go. It only works to 6x6, but that is ok for now. The investment was pretty low (main cost are enlarging lenses- which hopefully someday I can also use for their intended purpose).
 

shom

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@loccdor if you don't mind sharing, what solution did you end up settling on? I'm keeping my eyes open for a future setup and would like to know the perspective of someone just starting out. It's helpful to hear from people who have perfected it but we often forget the growing pains
 
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