Secretariat. Coglianese or Kaplan.

Rrrgcy · Aug 21, 2023

Didn’t know this was at-issue. Enjoyable to understand how races were worked. Photographers Bob Coglianese and Harry Kaplan.

For 50 years, this image has defined Secretariat’s famed Triple Crown. Who took it?

It's been fifty years since Secretariat won the Belmont to seal the Triple Crown. But the iconic photo of that moment is far from settled history.

www.nbcsports.com

MarkS · Sep 3, 2023

Photographers in a supervisory/ownership position have been taking credit for their staffers' work for a very long time. Matthew Brady comes to mind... many of the Civil War photos credited to him were made by Alexander Gardner and Timothy O'Sullivan, among others. Many years later researchers found out and published the truth.
Countless thousands of portraits I made in my yearbook-photos days were credited to Varden Studios, my employer, not that I minded.

Alan Edward Klein · Sep 4, 2023

If you look at the last [photo in the article, you'll see that the original picture shown in the beginning of the article was cropped by the frame and matting. This cropped out many of the horses running that were included in the original picture, a different photo. I saw this in a Richard Avedon show on New York's Long Island Museum. It seemed to me that the cropping excluded stuff. I couldn't believe Avedon would chop off things I saw chopped off. When I asked the museum's guide, she said, no, nothing was cut off. I forget who she said framed the picture. In any case, I don't believe her. The cropping just wasn't right.

I just wonder, how many photos of famous pictures we see that just aren't shown the way the photographer took them never mind that a different photographer took them than reported.

MattKing · Sep 4, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
If you look at the last [photo in the article, you'll see that the original picture shown in the beginning of the article was cropped by the frame and matting. This cropped out many of the horses running that were included in the original picture, a different photo. I saw this in a Richard Avedon show on New York's Long Island Museum. It seemed to me that the cropping excluded stuff. I couldn't believe Avedon would chop off things I saw chopped off. When I asked the museum's guide, she said, no, nothing was cut off. I forget who she said framed the picture. In any case, I don't believe her. The cropping just wasn't right.

I just wonder, how many photos of famous pictures we see that just aren't shown the way the photographer took them never mind that a different photographer took them than reported.

I've probably taken thousands of photos with the full knowledge that the film frame included things that I didn't intend to include in the final presentation.
About half of them would have been on a very rectangular frame - 135 primarily - and the other half on 6x6.
When you know the expected aspect ratio of the final output, you just compose within that part of the viewfinder, ignoring the rest.
Every newspaper photographer and wedding and portrait photographer using square format knows this well.

Alan Edward Klein · Sep 4, 2023

MattKing said:
I've probably taken thousands of photos with the full knowledge that the film frame included things that I didn't intend to include in the final presentation.
About half of them would have been on a very rectangular frame - 135 primarily - and the other half on 6x6.
When you know the expected aspect ratio of the final output, you just compose within that part of the viewfinder, ignoring the rest.
Every newspaper photographer and wedding and portrait photographer using square format knows this well.

Non sequitur. What I was saying was that a famous photo was coincidentally or maybe deliberately cropped incorrectly because of the framing process that didn't show the photo as it should have been the way the original photographer meant. So how many photos do we see in museums and elsewhere where the originals were also messed up by improper matting and framing with an ignorant public never realizing they are looking at a bad photo never intended by the original photographer?

Rrrgcy · Sep 5, 2023

A.E.Klein- “I just wonder, how many photos of famous pictures we see that just aren't shown the way the photographer took them…” I’d never thought of that - framers are now artists (choice of frame & mat aside). It does make a different look and contemplation.

(A.E.Klein… I’ve made your name more artist sounding, I think) and I wonder if frame/matters’ choices are deliberate or lazy.

Alan Edward Klein · Sep 5, 2023

Rrrgcy said:
A.E.Klein- “I just wonder, how many photos of famous pictures we see that just aren't shown the way the photographer took them…” I’d never thought of that - framers are now artists (choice of frame & mat aside). It does make a different look and contemplation.

(A.E.Klein… I’ve made your name more artist sounding, I think) and I wonder if frame/matters’ choices are deliberate or lazy.

I like using my first name to hopefully keep these forums friendly. I don't want people here to call me Mr. Regarding my middle name, that was a quirk. I was having trouble with using only my first and last name on some site due to someone else having my name. So I was going to just add my middle initial. But that seemed to business like. So on this forum I added my full middle name. Actually, I kind of like it. It's a little artsy. By the way, is Rrrgcy your first or last name?

Sirius Glass · Sep 5, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
I like using my first name to hopefully keep these forums friendly. I don't want people here to call me Mr. Regarding my middle name, that was a quirk. I was having trouble with using only my first and last name on some site due to someone else having my name. So I was going to just add my middle initial. But that seemed to business like. So on this forum I added my full middle name. Actually, I kind of like it. It's a little artsy. By the way, is Rrrgcy your first or last name?

Middle names are used when a child is really bad or the suspect in a mass murder. So are you a really bad child or a mass murder?

MattKing · Sep 5, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Middle names are used when a child is really bad or the suspect in a mass murder. So are you a really bad child or a mass murder?

Or are you a ground breaking civil rights activist?
I always like seeing the signs near Seattle indicating "M L King Way".
(my middle name is my father's given name, Leonard)

Now I think I'll listen to some music - maybe some Mary Chapin Carpenter?

Secretariat. Coglianese or Kaplan.

Rrrgcy

For 50 years, this image has defined Secretariat’s famed Triple Crown. Who took it?

MarkS

Alan Edward Klein

MattKing

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Alan Edward Klein

Rrrgcy

Alan Edward Klein

Sirius Glass

MattKing

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Secretariat. Coglianese or Kaplan.

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