Second thoughts

Flotsam · Nov 29, 2005

When I finally scored a D2V all equipped for 35mm to 4x5 on ebay, I figured that my old Beseler 23c was redundant and relegated it to the garage pending sale or donation to a young aspiring B&W film photographer . But after using the D2 for a couple of months, I'm thinking of setting the 23c back up for 35mm and 6x7 printing.
It is nice to be able to enlarge 4x5 negs but I am really missing the things that I have long taken for granted on the 23c. The quick and easy, vibration-free ability to change acetate contrast filters for split grade printing, the convenient slide-in red filter so that I can project the image without exposing the paper while selectively flashing areas with my adapted pen-light, and especially, the ability to swing the lens to focus sharply on a tilted easle for perspective control.
I figure that I can squeeze both enlargers in but it will be so tight that I will have to step out of the darkroom just to change my mind. Cozy, but workable, and I think worth it. Just thinking-out loud (or on-line in this case).

Pastiche · Nov 29, 2005

****, I'd say half of a man's worth is how he uses his tool.

I MEAN. . . .

once you are familiar with your tools... tools . . .. it's probably more expedient for you to keep working with what you've already mastered, and grow into your new toy...
I guess it all comes down to what format you enlarge most frequently, and if it's across the board, what the heck ? I'm sure with use you will either discover more things about your new enlarger that are appealing, more about your old enlarger that is appealing, and in the end, make the absolute best decision based on usage patterns etc...
****, yes.
(hope that wasn't clear enough)

Ole · Nov 29, 2005

I have two enlargers set up - a Durst 138S for 6x7 to 5x7", and an Opemus 6 for 6x6 and smaller. Wouldn't do without any of them! While the Durst is an amazing machine and possibly one of the finest enlargers ever made, it's just overkill for moderate enlargements from tiny negatives

tdeming · Nov 29, 2005

I also use both a 23C as well as an old DII. I use the DII only for 4x5, and the 23C for 35mm and medformat. I like the beseler enlarger much better than the omega, for many of the reasons you point out, and would never give it up. I have a lot of space, so that's not a problem for me, it's just watching out not to bump my head on the tall DII lamp housing. When I first got the DII, it came with a full set of negative and lens holders and smaller condenser, but I sold those off (and managed to pretty much get the enlarger for free in the process). The only mistake I made was selling a lens cone with an adjustable iris lens holder attached, which I'd love to have back. LOL.

Tim

rbarker · Nov 29, 2005

The feminine side of a guy should always be able to change its part of the mind without having to step into the next room.

A couple of questions, Neal. First, where are you placing your filters? I put them on top of the variable condensor element, and haven't found the little access flap to create any vibration problems. Depending on the wear level of the gearing on your unt, you might need to tighten down the focus-lock screw first, though. Second, there is an angled tab on the Omega lens boards that has a little slot that accommodates the swing-in red filter holder. My guess is that part was missing from the D2V you scored?

Will S · Nov 29, 2005

I would humbly suggest trying a glass carrier (4x5 will do if you get some rubylith for masking) and a 100mm (or maybe longer) for printing medium format with the D2V.

Also, do you really have vibration problems with opening the door to put in filters? I've never noticed them. But you can always get a variable contrast head for it too.

I think the value of the D2V is the various cheaply available add-ons available. And it does 4x5 of course.

Best,

Will

Flotsam · Nov 29, 2005

Yes, Ralph and Will are both 100% right.
I'm sure that with a bit of care and practice, you can switch the filters in the D2 without hurting sharpness it's just that switching mg filters in the 23C is a much gentler operation. You barely have to touch the enlarger during the switch.

I assumed that the bracket on the lensboard was for a swing in filter and yes, I don't have the holder for it. I have tried to use an under the lens polycontrast filter holder to hold the red filter with bad results. What a PITA.

Claire Senft · Nov 29, 2005

Ole, I think that the Durst 138s takes up a bit of room but I also feel that the small negative needs all the help they can get. Different pokes for different folks but for me having two enlarging is like having two cameras. I use one and ignore the other. My Mamiya RZ67 and fours lenses makes a rather expensive way to hog limited closet space when I only use my 35mm. I have shot maybe 2 rolls of film in the last 4 years with it and I was able to use it just as poorly as I use My Contax. I mean how much definition and gradation is required in crap!

I know it is a long shot but why not see if you can get one of the old Corsar/Mornick..or other.. colorheads that will fit right a top your condensers on your DII? You would be able to dial in whatever filtration values you want. A Agfa colorhead may also be adaptable.

df cardwell · Nov 29, 2005

Keep the 23c. Tweak it, and have a good time.

.

Ole · Nov 30, 2005

Claire Senft said:
... Different pokes for different folks but for me having two enlarging is like having two cameras. I use one and ignore the other. ...

Different, yes...

I have two enlargers and - more than 14? cameras, and use them all!

Flotsam · Nov 30, 2005

Claire Senft said:
Different pokes for different folks but for me having two enlargiers is like having two cameras. I use one and ignore the other.

I think that you are opening a can of worms on a slippery slope, Claire
There is _no_ such thing as having too many cameras and merely suggesting otherwise around here is considered dangerous and blasphemous thinking. Imagine if wives and girlfriends were to catch wind of this radical notion. Money that could be well spent on even more cameras and darkroom stuff would soon be wasted on useless items like sofas and curtains. Instead of bidding on that desparately needed lens to fill that several millimeter gap in our focal length array, (sure I have a 100mm and a 135mm but how am I supposed to live without a 105 as well?), we'll be expected to squander our money on silly luxuries like a refrigerator that was made less than 40 years ago and is capable of maintaining temperatures below 50 degrees F. Once on that path, how long will it be before bathrooms are relegated solely to the functions of bathing and personal hygiene? Who would want to live in such a world?.

I hope that the moderators will act to censor your post before it's too late.

Ole · Nov 30, 2005

Flotsam said:
I hope that the moderators will act to censor your post before it's too late.

As you can see, toward the bottom of the previous page, a moderator has already refuted this spurious argument.

Why should anyone want a refrigerator that's newer than any of my cameras?
:confused:

Marv · Nov 30, 2005

Ah, fellow traveler Neal, you're not thinking big picture here. It's not do I need 2 enlargers. It's not is my darkroom going to be too crowded. It's how do I take over more floor space to accommodate the second enlarger.

Blue prints, wrecking bars and reciprocating saws I see. Don't let anyone talk you down, now is the time. Seriously, go for it.

By the way, if you're married with kids, never mind.

Claire Senft · Nov 30, 2005

As I said diferent pokes for different folks. I am referring to what happens in my house not what might happen after a photographer eats a psychedelic sopper with his cold feet in the warm fiord contemplating the true meaning of ufta.

Mr Eastwood explained to me that a man has gotta no his limitations. They are in my case many. Somewhat is society protected by my wearing a hair shirt and strait jacket and the resurgence of bed bugs at my residence..

As some forgotten photographer has been quoted as saying "Each man to his own gout".

I will not step on your toes if you step not in my presence.

I thought that I had explained yesterday the I am an expert on heresy and my waistline indicates a good deal of familiarity with Hershey.

severian · Dec 2, 2005

Cadbury is much more fulfilling than Hershey
Jack B

photobackpacker · Dec 2, 2005

Flotsam, I realize you never shoot a negative needing D.R. manipulation but, unfortunately, I do. I am actually keeping my eyes open for a 23c to use for the sole purpose of flashing. It would make life so much easier.

glbeas · Dec 3, 2005

blaugn you hardly need an enlarger for that. I use an extra timer and a wall hung lamp on a dimmer. I set the level down to a useable intensity then calibrate for the paper.

photobackpacker · Dec 4, 2005

Interesting concept. I would miss the ability to use f-stop and/or time in combination to fine-tune the exposure. Thanks for the picture.

glbeas · Dec 4, 2005

You could calibrate the dial of the dimmer in "f/stop" values using a light meter if it's an important issue. I set mine at one value and leave it, the time variable does quite well for anything I've done so far.

Flotsam · Dec 4, 2005

blaughn said:
Flotsam, I realize you never shoot a negative needing D.R. manipulation but, unfortunately, I do. I am actually keeping my eyes open for a 23c to use for the sole purpose of flashing. It would make life so much easier.

Bruce, All my negatives are so well made that they actually climb into the enlarger by themselves, print themselves without my assistance, and then safely file themselves away . Seriously, every reason that I gave for setting my 23C back up again has to do with adding D.R. manipulation capabilities. You just gave me one more reason that I hadn't even considered. What a luxury to have a second enlarger to do pre and post flashing.

Status report: I have brought my Beseler back into the darkroom and it is all set up and ready to go. Unfortunately, I now have to hold my dry mounting press in my lap whenever I want to use it

Its like trying to fit 10 pounds of Baloney in a 5 pound sack.

KenS · Dec 4, 2005

Flotsam said:
What a luxury to have a second enlarger to do pre and post flashing.

You might wish to consider using the second enlarger to double the quantity of your print output and instead, use an "unsafe" safelight in an eBay rescued Smith Victor lamphouse.
What is an "unsafe" safelight you ask?

It is one of those small red-painted 15 watt indicator lights purchased at the local harware outlet, screwed into the rescued S-V reflector hung either from the ceiling above the bench to the side of the enlarger area... or on a light stand set about 5 to 6 feet from the wall where the print may be set on two (or more) thumbtacks (top and bottom) to prevent it falling either under the force of gravity or the warm air from the furnace.

I find it much easier to get the right amount of flashing (often about a 10 to 12 second exposure) a lot easier than removing the negative, closing down the aperture and re-adusting the timer. All too often I found myself forgetting to re-set the timer after re-installing the negative for the next print. My "unsafe" safelight has lasted me for years.... and saved a lot of "fiddling" time on mutiple print orders.

Ken

Whiteymorange · Dec 4, 2005

... 10 pounds of Baloney in a 5 pound sack.

Funny...My dad used to say refer to me that way. Only.. I don't think he used the word baloney.

Keep the 23c. Like cockroaches and rats, they will outlive armageddon. I have 12 of them being used by about 50 high-school boys year in and year out. Can't beat 'em.

photobackpacker · Dec 5, 2005

Flotsam said:
Bruce, All my negatives are so well made that they actually climb into the enlarger by themselves, print themselves without my assistance, and then safely file themselves away . Seriously, every reason that I gave for setting my 23C back up again has to do with adding D.R. manipulation capabilities. You just gave me one more reason that I hadn't even considered. What a luxury to have a second enlarger to do pre and post flashing.

Status report: I have brought my Beseler back into the darkroom and it is all set up and ready to go. Unfortunately, I now have to hold my dry mounting press in my lap whenever I want to use it

Its like trying to fit 10 pounds of Baloney in a 5 pound sack.

Flotsom, I am not impressed. Until your negatives also self-generate dust shedding ion emmissions, you are still in the hacker mode.

A dry-mount press in the lap - an interesting workflow... That's gotta hurt!

I built a shallow drawer-shelf assembly with heavy-duty drawer slides for my dry-mount press. When I realized how large a footprint it took, how seldom it was used, and the fact that it was accessed from the front - it made sense. As an added benefit, it got it out of the path of the dust that flys off of my negatives.

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