Scratches on negative from F2 camera (I think)

horacekenneth · Jul 4, 2015

Any idea what could be causing these scratches? Inside of my F2 is fairly clean, using steel reels to develop, hanging to dry and not squeegeeing. I've used the same film in another camera, processed the exact same way, no scratch.

First a photo of a negative I developed this weekend, second a scanned photo with the scratch from a couple months ago, last a scanned photo with the scratch from a while ago, same camera every time. I have not noticed it with any other camera. I might note that this most recent roll from which I've attached a photo of the negative, is the worst I've ever seen it.

[edit: so I went back and checked photos from my FM and my Bessa that used the same film and the same processing. There is some very light scratching mostly in the center of the negative but it isn't arrow-straight scratching like these examples are and it is much much less pronounced, for example, it doesn't show up in my scans.]

Richard S. (rich815) · Jul 4, 2015

Camera perhaps but you can open the back and feel all film channels to see if there's grit or a raised burr or something. Could also be a piece of grit in that one film canister's felt.

horacekenneth · Jul 4, 2015

I've checked the film channels and I don't notice anything. Also these are specifically in the middle - I'm totally at a loss as to what could be contacting it right down the middle - perhaps I am looking in the wrong place? There's metal slides that hold the edges of the negative as it passes along the pressure plate and then it gets rolled up on the take-up spool. There's some dust around the top and bottom of the take-up spool but I don't see where the middle of the film could get scratched.

Note - each photo is from a different roll. I don't think it's the film canister.

horacekenneth · Jul 4, 2015

I posted this in the original post as well but I went back and checked photos from my FM and my Bessa that used the same film and the same processing. There is some very light scratching mostly in the center of the negative but it isn't arrow-straight scratching like these examples are and it is much much less pronounced, for example, it doesn't show up in my scans.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jul 4, 2015

Interesting, I was going to suggest maybe the specific camera as perhaps the tension of the film tightens more at a certain point when going through the camera and spooling on to the take up reel but then you mention it happening in other cameras too. I'm back to dust or such on the film canister felt. Were these new films? Perhaps stored out of the film cans in a drawer or in your camera bag where they all could have picked up dust or even minor grit? When you put the film onto your spools and into your tanks are you opening and removing the film in a changing bag or pulling it back out from the canisters throug hthe felt again inside the bag? Obviously something is scratching the film and it's either the cameras or the film felts I think unless there's something more about your processing that might cause this?

Xmas · Jul 4, 2015

You have not said if the scratches are on the emulsion or on the backside of the film.
The camera should not scratch the emulsion but the pressure plate and a sticky roller can damage the backside.r
The smallest rust spot is all you don't need... Inspect with a loupe compare location on film.

David Lingham · Jul 4, 2015

Are you loading your own cassettes?

Sirius Glass · Jul 4, 2015

Check the following:

The film channel
All film rollers
The pressure plate
Light traps of film cassettes
If you are bulk loading film then the bulk loader -- unlikely since scratches do not show up with other cameras.

summicron1 · Jul 4, 2015

David Lingham said:
Are you loading your own cassettes?

this is my question -- this sort of thing can be caused by grit in the felt of bulk load cassettes ... time to replace if so.

If you are using commercial film, I dunno ...

ColColt · Jul 4, 2015

I would think the cassette is at fault if you're rolling your own since those scratches appeared on more than one camera(FM and Bessa). It's most unlikely you'd get three rolls of Tri-X(for instance) and used in three cameras with scratches.

Xmas · Jul 4, 2015

If it is the Chinese film it sometimes comes pre scratched.

Sirius Glass · Jul 5, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Check the following:
The film channel
All film rollers
The pressure plate
Light traps of film cassettes
If you are bulk loading film then the bulk loader -- unlikely since scratches do not show up with other cameras.

I see it happened on different cameras, so check you bulk loader.

horacekenneth · Jul 5, 2015

I'm using commercial film. The marks on my other negatives are nothing like this, I shouldn't have even mentioned it. Look at this, it's long, it's straight and it shows up pretty flagrantly in scans and in prints.

I've run my finger all over the inside of my camera and haven't found anything incriminating. Would I have felt something or could it be that small?

How do I tell which side the scratch is on?

Sirius Glass · Jul 5, 2015

horacekenneth said:
How do I tell which side the scratch is on?

If the negative image is broken by the line, then the scratch is on the emulsion side.

If the negative image is not broken by the line, then the scratch is on the film [back] side.

jimjm · Jul 5, 2015

Usually scratches on the shiny, non-emulsion side of the neg will show up as white lines in the scan/print like you have. Based on yout first image of the film, it looks like that's what you have here.

Since you've pretty much eliminated processing or film canisters as the culprit, I'd inspect your camera's pressure plate and the roller next to it on the inside of the back door. Any bit of dirt or debris stuck to these may cause the scratches you're seeing. Also check the inside of the chamber around the take-up spool. If there's any debris or film fragments stuck in there, they may scratch the film as you're winding on. I just finished replacing the seals on a Nikkormat and several small pieces of film came out of this area when I was blowing it out.

Last resort, replace the back with one from another F2 body. If you don't have one, you should be able to find one relatively cheap on eBay or from a donor parts body.

Good Luck!

ColColt · Jul 5, 2015

My bet's on the pressure plate. I'd be taking me a magnifying glass to it. If you can't find another back, Sover Wong is your friend.

Sirius Glass · Jul 5, 2015

When checking a back, use your fingers; if your fingers feel it, the film will definitely feel it too in not a nice way.

AgX · Jul 6, 2015

ColColt said:
I would think the cassette is at fault if you're rolling your own since those scratches appeared on more than one camera(FM and Bessa).

They did NOT occur on other than that camera:

so I went back and checked photos from my FM and my Bessa that used the same film and the same processing. There is some very light scratching mostly in the center of the negative but it isn't arrow-straight scratching like these examples are and it is much much less pronounced, for example, it doesn't show up in my scans.

Xmas · Jul 6, 2015

The emulsion is dull side the non emulsion is shiny.
The image in the camera is reversed and upside down.
If you hold the film up to the back you need only look at a smaller area.
If the roller does not rotate freely it could also cause a problem.
If necessary rub a scrap bit of film on the pressure plate. If a scratch occurs...
A lens makes a reasonable loupe.

railwayman3 · Jul 6, 2015

I had chronic problems with heavy scratches on the back of films taken with an old Exa camera, which I was playing around with a few years ago, yet the pressure plate looked and felt completely smooth. I eventually replaced the plate with another from a "parts" camera, and everything was fine....I could only think that the old pressure plate was exerting too much "pressure" (although the wind-on felt entirely normal.).

Xmas · Jul 6, 2015

railwayman3 said:
I had chronic problems with heavy scratches on the back of films taken with an old Exa camera, which I was playing around with a few years ago, yet the pressure plate looked and felt completely smooth. I eventually replaced the plate with another from a "parts" camera, and everything was fine....I could only think that the old pressure plate was exerting too much "pressure" (although the wind-on felt entirely normal.).

The pressure plate only holds the film between the outer rails. Stills film should clear the inner rails. Normally it has a tendency to move away from the pressure plate! But may touch. The non emulsion side is pretty hard and most films will be coated.
The pressure plate needs to have no high spots.
The roller that some cameras have needs to be free running as it is in contact with the back of film.
Cine is sometimes thicker than stills and may have REMJET... But should be ok cept in some cassettes.
PET base can be way thinner than normal stills.

Old_Dick · Jul 6, 2015

Just grasping at straws. How do you spool your film on the reel? Are you wearing any jewelry that could do the damage?

horacekenneth · Jul 6, 2015

I load the cartridge, pull the film across and insert it into the slot. Just a smooth wedding ring.

There's a little bit of dust around the take-up spool that I'm cleaning out and I'm looking for a replacement back from a parts camera. Hopefully can get this resolved for sure.

Scratches on negative from F2 camera (I think)

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency