School or Trial by fire

Berkeley Mike · Jan 19, 2019

Can we discuss learning the craft: stories and opinions. For the record we must assume that we are all nazis and wrong and leave the personal sh*t out of it?

Few people actually commit to gaining a degree. Most often they get a bit of something they need and leave the program to do/continue their work or do some consecutive classes over a few semesters while they are working. It is the same in the other vocational classes.

As working photographers we can limit ourselves to an approach that "works". Our lighting classes tend to be more of a survey of methods and styles. These participants, once through the course, apply these as needed and, perhaps, find another style they can employ and develop. As an assistant working with photographers there were a few things I learned very deeply but not broadly.

Berkeley Mike · Jan 20, 2019

I just realized that my post may seem a non sequitur, as it begs experience form another thread. Apologies.

So...

how did you get to your present mastery of our craft? What do you think of the ways to get there?

Doremus Scudder · Jan 20, 2019

I'm self-taught. I invested hours and hours in study and practice. I read hundreds of books, most of which were aimed at amateurs and, after a certain point, no longer able to bring me further. All that till I finally discovered Ansel Adams original five-part "Basic Photo Series." It was anything but basic (much more technical than his later three-part series) and started me on my way.

I later took a photography course at the University of Texas (back in the early 80s), mostly to gain access to the darkroom. I ended up teaching the instructor about split-developing graded papers to get intermediate contrast. I took a master class from a Minor White student (can't remember his name...) that was simply unhelpful; he did like my prints, but could only ask about my spiritual motivations for making them.

I'm an avid reader and good researcher and have read and put to the test about everything I could lay my eyes on (this forum and the LF forum are particularly helpful). That and lots of practical experience have got me to what I humbly consider to be a high level of technical excellence in the particular segment of black-and-white large-format photography that I practice. I don't do studio lighting, I don't do people or portraits, etc., etc. There's a lot I don't know about the things I don't do.

Even though I have acquired practically all my knowledge "myself," I would point out that reading texts and using instruction manuals is not learning in a vacuum; I had the best photographic minds at my disposal. Plus, I had to spend a lot of time figuring things out for myself that having a competent and sympathetic teacher would have made easier and shorter. Had I been able to take classes to speed me along my way, I certainly would have. We don't have to reinvent the wheel; having access to competent instruction and someone experienced able to answer our questions as we're learning is a real advantage. I would recommend to anyone starting out who is serious about learning their craft to find a good course.

FWIW, much of what I apply to my photography has come from ancillary sources; my art history courses (plus lots of museum visits), my physics of optics courses, my courses on aesthetics, literature and even my musical training. The craft itself is just a means; what you bring to it and how you put it to use (and why) is what is truly important. I still think that the most important aspect of my photography is deciding what to point my camera at.

Best,

Doremus

jvo · Jan 20, 2019

in my younger years, although photography was something I dabbled in, it was only after i got my liberal arts degree and started making a living that i got more engaged. family, having to pay the bills, didn't permit the opportunity to consider a photography program.

like doremus, i read a lot, went to museums, had some part-time mentors, participated in some "seminars"/video's/ workshops/courses of various lengths, hung around accomplished photographers when and where i could, - made lots of photographs, and mistakes - and learned.

in thinking about your question, and like doremus, if i could have found the right, well-rounded course, i might have done it - i just never found it at the right time, or a program that really spoke to me that enticed me enough to pursue it.

looking back, i like my path, am still learning, and making pictures, having much more fun. i was retired for 6 months and fully engaged in photography... everything took a backseat for last 2 years in that we're adopting our grandkids, i'm now back to more darkroom work. the kids are my best subjects - and, they make life great!

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 20, 2019

Self teaching since 1990ish...

Vaughn · Jan 21, 2019

School is just another way of teaching oneself. And the self-teaching continues after school. Makes no difference.

silveror0 · Jan 21, 2019

I can only relate briefly my history of learning this craft and conclusions formed along the way. I started by using my dad’s folding Kodak to take pictures of strings of fish we caught on vacation trips (he was an avid bass fisherman), and processing at local drugstores. Then used the same camera for snaps of my classmates in college. For graduation he gifted me with a 35mm Minolta A (the first one they ever marketed – I think); I think he may have wanted his folder back. Several years of shooting color slides, same processing method. Then in ’58 a friend enticed me into getting two Leica M3s and doing my own b&w DIMroom work. Signed up for a “correspondence course” in photography, offered by big name photographers of that era, located on the east coast. Turned out nearly all the assignments (submitted by snail-mail) required the use of people for models (such as “Uncle Charlie”). That didn’t surprise me as I realized all those photographers, being East Coast guys were surrounded by wall-to-wall people. Didn’t interest me at all, because I was only interested in landscape photography. Scrapped that idea. Started noticing large format stuff but didn’t have a clue how to. At that point, I recalled becoming aware of AA’s name and thought he could likely teach me some stuff, so off I went to his Yosemite summer workshop in ’66. Didn’t know enough to ask intelligent questions and didn’t learn a thing, so being a “bookworm” I brought home his entire book series to study and got engrossed into the Zone System. This lead to three more of his workshops by ’71, each one focusing on different topics, e.g., snow texture, darkroom printing. Then began my backpacking into the mountains with Sinar Norma (monorail) gear (I was still young enough to have the necessary fortitude). I was a happy camper at last. My backpacking days are over now at 84, and my 5x7 and 8x10 Normas are getting more use in less stringent efforts.

So I suppose I’d conclude that I’ve been self-taught with guidance by AA and other more contemporary photographers (carefully selected) along the way.

Jim Jones · Jan 21, 2019

In the 1940s I started using a folding Kodak like silveror0. By 1953 I had a Leica, but little knowledge. Bit by bit, by reading magazines and a few books, and by analyzing many mistakes, I gained some technical ability. A BA in art in 1975 added little to my grasp of photography except to the esthetics of art which can well be applied to photography. Post graduate studies were more helpful. An accumulation of books on many aspects of photography is valuable. I strongly recommend Way Beyond Monochrome by Ralph Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse. It does perhaps more for today's B&W photographer than Ansel Adams' five Basic Photo book series did for us half a century ago. Now is a wonderful time for photographers. Modern technology frees one from much of the drudgery of producing fine images. Today's equipment is more affordable and far better than that basic Leica iiif which cost way over a month's pay. More information is freely available on the internet than almost anyone can absorb. This forum is an example of that.

grahamp · Jan 21, 2019

'Mastery of the craft' - me? I doubt that I will live that long...

I got a little from my father, a lot from self-teaching in my teen years, grabbed a 'O' level in passing (odd for someone doing science A levels), and got some technical instruction as part of my later geology training. Taught informally. Grabbed opportunities for exhibitions, and workshops.

The nice thing about a curriculum is that someone took time to structure the content to suit an aim. The biggest risk with being self-taught is being ignorant of possibilities.

On the other hand, it is unlikely that any curriculum is going to be tailored to suit exactly what your aims are at a given time. Especially if photography is not your career or major part of paid work.

MattKing · Jan 21, 2019

It seems to me that there is a third part to the continuum. On one end there is structured school learning, on the other end there is essentially self taught and in the middle is a mixture of self taught and friends and mentors and separate workshops and short term classes and symposiums et al.
The only structured school learning I've experienced are things like night school classes (done to get me some darkroom time) and some very early high school classes that were part of an art class where I had as much darkroom experience (by then) as my teacher had.
But I love to teach or explain or demonstrate to others.

Photo Engineer · Jan 21, 2019

For me, it was a bit of both. School to learn the science and experience to learn the craft.

PE

jtk · Jan 21, 2019

Brooks failed because it became irrelevant (had been that way for decades). Art Center School of Los Angeles prospers because real photographers and graphics pros come from there. The lesson isn't technical, it has to do with visual competence. RIT had two programs...one of which was visual.

Vaughn · Jan 21, 2019

MattKing said:
It seems to me that there is a third part to the continuum. On one end there is structured school learning, on the other end there is essentially self taught and in the middle is a mixture of self taught and friends and mentors and separate workshops and short term classes and symposiums et al....

A circle might be better than a continum. Bend your line and where the ends come together is school and non-school learning.

Berkeley Mike · Jan 21, 2019

Self taught. Science and mechanics are natural to me. I found the camera-thing pretty straightforward but without a darkroom I only went so far. An academic setting provided a well-established darkroom and chemistry. So I was exposed to processing in a structured setting without having to create an infrastructure. Once I understood the process then I started doing film at home: loading in the closet, thermometer on my kitchen tap, mixing my own chem buying darkroom time by the month at Looking Glass back when it was on Telegraph and Alcatraz. Turned an unused laundry room into a very nice darkroom.

But I had to make it pay. So I refined things as needed for the assignment and improved time and cost efficiency. Took a Zone System class to control my process and from there haunted pro darkrooms as a drone; 8-12 hours a day, a couple of sets of rechargeable batteries in my Walkman. After bringing shooters prints where I could not render shadow/highlight detail consistently I started working on set lighting, set building, creating pre-Photoshop effects. Then it was view cameras & Hasselblads, ektachrome, polaroid and plus-X of agency, computer, people, first for others, then for myself.

But key were the two darkroom classes. They provided a formatted circumstance to show me how. The rest was up to me.

Peter Schrager · Jan 21, 2019

Isn't life a balance of both the yin and yang
First off at 17 I started doing 5x7 led by the AA books. Still didn't have a clue
Next was a weeklong workshop with zone VI
that really opened my eyes to what could be done. I came away with my first great negatives and prints.
Never went to art school but used to cut high school and go to MOMA in NYC for firsthand look at photography
Have taken many more workshops since but they have all been process driven; platinum; pop collidion etc.
Get your inspiration from others; steal what you can then make it your own. Theres nothing new to be discovered only your interpretation of it.
Yes and Ansel was correct...the first 10,000 negatives are just practice....I'm still learning

Sirius Glass · Jan 21, 2019

I learned photography though friends, camera stores, ... after many decades I took two darkroom classes. I read and study about composition and perception from books, art course and history of art courses, but I learned the most about composition from being dragged as a child most weekends through every art museum in the Baltimore Washington DC area by my parents when I was growing up.

Ces1um · Jan 22, 2019

Started learning photography through youtube. Must have spent hundreds of hours learning about how cameras work, tricks for composition, how to develop film, etc... Then I took a class at the local community college one night a week for a few months. This was mostly darkroom work. Beyond that I've read a few books and a lot of trial and error work. I think a formal education might present all this information to me in a shorter period of time and would be a more efficient way of learning. That being said, I doubt it would have been as enjoyable.

Rick A · Jan 22, 2019

Self taught from the age of nine until I entered high school, joined the year book staff and got great lessons from the art teacher. Then had a graphic art major in college, gained much more darkroom experience plus alternative processes. More self teaching through experience throughout the entire time, Was hired by a national portrait chain as a route photographer, became a corporate shill and instructor for them before becoming disenchanted with the life and pressures. Dropped out of the corporate life to follow another passion, and apprenticed as a cabinet maker(tischler actually)under a pair of German masters. Still practicing the craft and side gigged as a wedding photog for several years, plus boudoir , sports, and portraits. At 67 I'm still learning, There was a time many years back when I did put down my cameras, but had to return to them. I don't shoot much any more but I still tinker about in my darkroom and do alternate forms of print making.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 22, 2019

I went to college to learn about photography and assisted photography to round out my education. When I assisted in LA, photographers I worked for and assistants I worked with are highly creative and talented and their education ran the gamut. Some never went to photo school, some just assisted. I graduated over 30 years ago when college was relatively affordable. If I were young and thought about going into deep debt for a photo education to be a professional, I'd think twice. I think I would just assist and even work for free. I don't think I've mastered my craft and have plenty to learn. If I think I'm a great photographer, I'll humble myself by going to Flickr to see the amount of talent that is out there. I wasn't born with photographic talent, but my passion for the craft keeps me learning.

dmr · Jan 22, 2019

I've had a number of weekend workshops and such, but no for-credit coursework in photography. I got interested in a very early age. They gave me a Brownie Starflash so I would not break my dad's cameras. So you can say I am mostly self-taught by trial and error.

Peltigera · Jan 25, 2019

I was taught non-photographic optics at work in my younger incarnation. I am self-taught regarding composition and presentation - but I belong to a local artists group and learn a great deal from them: they do not think about sharpness, Dmax, exposure and so on, they just produce the pictures they like.

Berkeley Mike · Jan 25, 2019

Last night I started an Introduction to Digital Photo class. I have room for 22. We had 30 enrolled, 3 waitlisted, and 35 people in the room. Part of getting started is having each student talk about why they were there and a bit of info about where they were in photo. Without putting too fine a point on this the students went from absolute beginner to shooters who wanted to in-fill digital management skills

Pieter12 · Jan 25, 2019

Sorry, this is long.

I picked up my dad’s folding MF camera (I can’t remember the brand: Agfa, Zeiss, Voigtlander maybe) when I was 13 and shot a few rolls of film. Then I got a Yashica 127 format TLR for Christmas and started shooting more, mostly reversal film. I picked up Andreas Feininger’s The Complete Photographer and started learning more and got more interested in B&W, was able to put together a small darkroom for printing. In my late teens I worked one summer to get a Nikon F and a couple of lenses. I would go to local motorcycle hill-climb races and shoot the riders as they went by.

I couldn’t afford photo school, but managed get to art school and to become a graphic designer and later an advertising art director. I was fortunate to be able to work alongside some very talented photographers, cinematographers and directors during my career as an AD, always observing how they worked. I also realized my job was to be an art director and although I frequently had a camera on me, it was to take behind-the-scenes shots and on location, shots that were not the ad assignment. Nothing irritates a photographer or director than some smartass AD telling them how to do their job, but most do appreciate it when you have a good understanding of the craft and technical aspects of a shoot.

I had a handful of freelance clients on the side over the years and sometimes I would make the shots I needed for the work I did for them.

It was digital that really got me back to shooting seriously for myself. The fact that I could immediately see and correct as I shot meant I got more satisfying results. I had picked up a lot of technical knowledge along the way and was able to put it to use.

I did take a handful of workshops and community college classes in photography over the years, but it was the two darkroom classes I took a few years ago that really changed things for me. I fell in love with B&W film. One of the things I love about B&W film photography is the process is all made and controlled by me. It is my art from the choice of film, subject, composition, exposure and processing, to the print in the darkroom: size and borders, cropping, contrast, dodging and burning. I can put it on the wall alongside other photos and enjoy them together or individually, catch them as I pass by, have someone notice them without directing them to a website or dragging them over to look at a screen.

jtk · Jan 25, 2019

Berkeley Mike said:
Last night I started an Introduction to Digital Photo class. I have room for 22. We had 30 enrolled, 3 waitlisted, and 35 people in the room. Part of getting started is having each student talk about why they were there and a bit of info about where they were in photo. Without putting too fine a point on this the students went from absolute beginner to shooters who wanted to in-fill digital management skills

How many of them completed their DEGREE (your first question) in photography? How many even completed two semesters?

markjwyatt · Jan 25, 2019

One of my favorite old sayings (attributed to Erasmus of Rotterdam): Experience is a good teacher, but very expensive.

School or Trial by fire

Berkeley Mike

Berkeley Mike

Doremus Scudder

jvo

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Vaughn

silveror0

Jim Jones

grahamp

MattKing

Moderator

Photo Engineer

jtk

Vaughn

Berkeley Mike

Peter Schrager

Sirius Glass

Ces1um

Rick A

Mainecoonmaniac

dmr

Peltigera

Berkeley Mike

Pieter12

jtk

markjwyatt

School or Trial by fire

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Moderator

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