Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar-S 5.6/150 Questions

bobwysiwyg · Jul 7, 2008

I hope enough of you will bare with me on a couple of novice questions about this lens. It was acquired along with a fairly extensive Cambo outfit as my first attempt at LF photography. All prior experience was 35mm.

I have no documentation for the camera or lens, so I have been learning as I go. I thought I had everything set to go and was contemplating trying a couple of shots after going through the film loading routine, etc. I gave the lens/focus routine one last go-through and discovered that at any shutter speed below 1/30th sec., the shutter hangs open. Above that, it closes as it should.

What I have been doing, is with the shutter uncocked, I use "C" in the accompanying attachment to manually open the shutter for focusing and is closed manually before cocking the shutter? "A" is to cock the shutter prior to taking the picture. One of the things that puzzles me are the M X and V. "M" = Manual? "X" = x-sync and "V" = no clue. What are they, how do they come into play?

As for the shutter sticking below 1/30th is this because of something I'm doing in the wrong sequence, or a faulting lens/shutter. If faulty, is this lens worth taking someplace for service. I have no idea how long this may have sat unused before I acquired it.

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2008

These shutters get lazy if the slow speeds aren't used. It'll probably need a CLA.

You're right C is the preview lever. The MXV bit I've never fathomed out except the X is flash sync for electronic flash. Older shutters particularly US, Illex etc have an adjustable delay for different flash bulbs.

Ian

bobwysiwyg · Jul 7, 2008

Ian,

Thanks for replying. So it sounds like you're saying servicing is about all I can do for this sticking shutter at slow speeds? Is the lens worth it?

Pinholemaster · Jul 7, 2008

M is for flash bulbs; X is for electronic flash; V, no clue so don't use it (grin).

Jerevan · Jul 7, 2008

On all other shutters I know of, V stands for selftimer.

Ole · Jul 7, 2008

M= Bulb sync, X= X-sync, V= delay (timer, from "Verdauer").

The shutter is well worth a cleaning. What the lens is worth is irrelevant, just compare the cost of a new shutter with a CLA.

bobwysiwyg · Jul 7, 2008

Hmm, guess I'm confused. How do these (MX,V) come into play? I have to depress the shutter all the way to the "V" end before the shutter is cocked for anything. Or, is this another indication that this lens needs either to be serviced, be relegated to paperweight status.

Ole · Jul 7, 2008

There should be a little lever to switch from M to X to V...

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2008

Sometimes these shutters don't have that lever, which is odd, I was aware what the M & V do on my older shutters.

Ian

bobwysiwyg · Jul 7, 2008

This one definately does not have such a lever. I now just noticed that if I set the shutter speed to anything below 1/30, the shutter hangs open, but if I either gently tap the lens board a couple of times it closes, or if I slowly turn the shutter speed selection ring clock-wise toward higher speeds after it sticks open, it will close when I reach about 1/125th.

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2008

The shutters aren't difficult to service. I use a UK repair company and they can do a complete strip down clean, reassemble, adjust etc very quickly sometimes with about a 24 hour turnaround.

Most god camera repairers can do a CLA on shutters like this one, it probably needs very little done to it. Nothings likely to be broken.

Ian

edtbjon · Jul 7, 2008

The value of the lens is hard to tell without seeing it, but if the front and rear lens are without scratches and the overall condition is OK, I recon at least $250 (with a working shutter that is). They could go for more.
The Symmar-S is a very common modern lens which is of high build standard. A CLA for the shutter will give you a very good workhorse of a lens.
(I don't want to get into any possible brand wars. I have a 150 Symmar-S myself and I have no intention of getting anything else in that focal length. Eh, well. I do have a soft spot for Voigtländer lenses like Heliars and Apo-Lanthars. Not because it's "better", just different.)

//Björn

Resoman · Jul 7, 2008

I've got two older Schneider lenses with similar Synchro-Compur shutters.

The one with a 135mm Symmar-S has no MXV markings, and I know its flash synchronization is X, since it works fine with electronic flash.

The shutter on my 75mm Super Angulon has the MXV markings just like your lens, but it also has the little three-position lever which allows you to select which flash synch (or self timer).

At some point in time, the M synch was omitted due to flash bulbs falling out of favor. I'm guessing that your shutter is X synch only, and that the manufacturer had some leftover parts with the MXV designation and didn't want to waste them, confusing though it might be!

Regards,

Gary,

East Snook, TX

bobwysiwyg · Jul 7, 2008

Thanks all for the input. The markings for sync are confusing, but probably of little consequence to me since I never use flash anyway. The glass is in very good condition so I guess I will pursue a cleaning/servicing. Thanks again.

bobwysiwyg · Jul 7, 2008

Well, I'm back. I've checked a couple of places (photo shop here and they no longer do them in-house and send service/repairs out). Also checked with Calumet. It seems nobody can do this in less than 6 weeks. Is this the norm? If not, does anyone have a recommendation in the U.S. that might be just a tad quicker?:confused:

bobwysiwyg · Jul 9, 2008

I'm back again. I probably committed some form of heresy, but after finding no one who could turn around servicing my lens in less than 6 weeks, I took matters into my own hands. I wanted to take the gear up to the U.P. on vacation in August and 6 weeks just wouldn't cut it.

Using a short length of very thin wire with a drop of very light oil on it, I maneuvered it into various openings on the lens front (cocking lever, shutter tripping lever, etc.) and tried to get the oil at points of pivot or friction that could be reached. Worked all the shutter times a couple of times (still sticking below 1/30th) and then put it aside overnight. Next day... all working fine. Even "bulb" is releasing properly after letting go. Is it calibrated and are the shutter speeds correct? I have no idea, but wouldn't have known had the lens been functioning when I received it since I knew nothing of the history. I'll try some rudimentary testing and comparisons though, which had to be done anyway.

edtbjon · Jul 11, 2008

"His name isn't Sherlock, it's Sheer-Luck!" (Marty Feldman in a Mel Brooks film on S. Holmes)

Congratulations, sometimes it's really easy.

//Björn

keithwms · Jul 11, 2008

Note that you can hand shutter at about 1/8 or 1/16 and longer, no problem if you're shooting b&w. Others here (Jim Galli) have hand shuttered to 1/25 or so, as I recall. Frankly I don't understand why people spend good money on packard shutters when hand shuttering is so easy! I mean, if in doubt, practice with a metronome

I have a Schneider 90/8 Super A and the slow speeds were at first sticking, but after some exercise they were fine.

bobwysiwyg · Jul 11, 2008

Someone earlier posted that some lenses get "lazy" , particularly at the slower speeds if not used at those speeds occasionally. I'm assuming this translates to run them through all speeds occasionally to avoid this?

Jerevan · Jul 11, 2008

Ian Grant said:
Most god camera repairers can do a CLA on shutters like this one, it probably needs very little done to it. Nothings likely to be broken.

Ian

I do think highly of skilled repairers who seems to perform magic with shutters, but isn't this a bit over the top, Ian?

BrianShaw · Jul 11, 2008

bobwysiwyg said:
Someone earlier posted that some lenses get "lazy" , particularly at the slower speeds if not used at those speeds occasionally. I'm assuming this translates to run them through all speeds occasionally to avoid this?

This phenomenon of shutter "laziness" is nothing more than an indication that the shutter needs to be cleaned. Anything else is just a temporary measure that may or may not work reliably.

John Kasaian · Jul 11, 2008

Lazy shutters often respond well to exercise!

numerus · Feb 2, 2024

Ole said:
M= Bulb sync, X= X-sync, V= delay (timer, from "Verdauer").

The shutter is well worth a cleaning. What the lens is worth is irrelevant, just compare the cost of a new shutter with a CLA.

This thread is quite old, I know. I was googled some information on Symmar-S lenses and found this.
I just want to say that the V on these Synchro Compur shutters stands for "Vorlauf" and not "Verdauer". A "Verdauer" is a drink (schnapps, liqueur ...) after eating too much

Greetings from Germany.

Marco Gilardetti · Feb 13, 2024

Well, thanks for the clarification!

Again, in case anyone would land on this old thread by google searching etc., I'll add that I strongly recommend to avoid trying the "V" self-timing utility unless one is relatively sure that the shutter is in fairly good working order. The "V" delayer geartrain tends to get stuck (as well as long shutter times do) and if it does get stuck, the lens/shutter will be totally unusable until opened and properly serviced.

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