Schneider customer service

malcao · Oct 7, 2009

I have not so good experience with Schneider customer service (Germany), you send them an email and then after some weeks you get a reply.
In best case the reply makes sense and if you have to ask them again but this time there is no reply.

This time I asked them what the cost would be to adjust the aperture blades for the 360/ 6,8 symmar-S, I got a reply and they asked what shutter the lens had. OK. I gave them the info and....

"The Prontor-3 shutter is leaked since 10 years. Spare parts are not
available anymore. The lenses are leaked since 20 years.

I´m sorry that I couldn`t help you in this matter."

GRRRR!! I asked for a adjustment for the aperture and nothing else, maybe the customer service dosen't know how a LF lens is working? Anybody with same experience with Schneider? Is Rodenstock service better?

Jeff L · Oct 7, 2009

Email KHB Photographix. They're in Canada but LF lenses are one of the things they specialize in servicing.

Ian Grant · Oct 7, 2009

You've run into a problem because Schneider never made shutters but bought them in. I think Zeiss took over the manufacture of Compur & Prontor shutters but sold everything off a few years ago.

Any good camera repairer should be able to fix it, unless it needs new parts, I had Black on White in Bristol, UK, service an old 165nmm Super AAngulon with a Compur 2-3 years ago, and can recommend them. But there should be a good repair shop in Sweden. When they CLA/Repair an LF shutter a good repairman completely strips the shutter and totally rebuilds it.

Ian

malcao · Oct 7, 2009

Ian, the problem wasn't the shutter it was the aperture, maybe there is nothing wrong with Schneider maybe it's my english

edp · Oct 7, 2009

malcao said:
In best case the reply makes sense

"The Prontor-3 shutter is leaked since 10 years. Spare parts are not
available anymore. The lenses are leaked since 20 years."

Heh. So much for mechanical translation.

Presumably their response was originally written in German with "ausgelaufen" (meaning "phased out, discontinued", but can also mean "leaked", "run out", "spilled"), and then translated using the first match they found in the dictionary.

So don't be too hard on them, they're trying.

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2009

Schneider is no different from most product manufacturers... they generally only provide support to current products. Seek an aftermarket repair service for "outdated" products; there are companies who can do what you want... like SK Grimes (and hopefully someone a little closer to you!) If I understand what you need/want, it is a new aperture scale: http://www.skgrimes.com/iris/index.htm

Ian Grant · Oct 7, 2009

It's the aperture blades Brian

malcao said:
Ian, the problem wasn't the shutter it was the aperture, maybe there is nothing wrong with Schneider maybe it's my english

Your English is fine, better than some students I've taught in England, not sure about Schneiders though .

The aperture mechanism is part of the shutter, Schneider seem to be saying that there were problems with those shutters. If that's true then a good repairman should have seen the problem before. So the shutter need diassembly to repair the aperture.

Ian

malcao · Oct 7, 2009

BrianShaw said:
Schneider is no different from most product manufacturers... they generally only provide support to current products. Seek an aftermarket repair service for "outdated" products; there are companies who can do what you want... like SK Grimes (and hopefully someone a little closer to you!) If I understand what you need/want, it is a new aperture scale: http://www.skgrimes.com/iris/index.htm

There is no problem having my Leica M4 checked and fixed, I had some Gossen Bisix and Sixon2 fixed without any problem. So there are companies out there that fix products that is "outdated".

malcao · Oct 7, 2009

Ian Grant said:
It's the aperture blades Brian

Your English is fine, better than some students I've taught in England, not sure about Schneiders though .

The aperture mechanism is part of the shutter, Schneider seem to be saying that there were problems with those shutters. If that's true then a good repairman should have seen the problem before. So the shutter need diassembly to repair the aperture.

Ian

I adjusted the aperture blades myself you can adjust the aperture just by moving the blades and then tighten a screw. So in that respect it's not connected with the shutter. Sometimes there is a reward in getting a little angry and I saved time and money to.

May I print your text about my English and have on the wall?

Ian Grant · Oct 7, 2009

malcao said:
I adjusted the aperture blades myself you can adjust the aperture just by moving the blades and then tighten a screw. So in that respect it's not connected with the shutter. Sometimes there is a reward in getting a little angry and I saved time and money to.

May I print your text about my English and have on the wall?

Of course.

Glad to hear it's fixed

Ian

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2009

Ian Grant said:
It's the aperture blades Brian

Ian, please help me understand because I don't seem to know what folks mean when they say "have the aperture blades adjusted" or "calibrated". My experience on both old and new shutter is that they either work or don't (are broken) and they either accurately represent the indicated aperture number or don't (in which case I assume the scale is "adjusted" rather than the aperture mechanism itself). Please help me understand.

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2009

malcao said:
There is no problem having my Leica M4 checked and fixed, I had some Gossen Bisix and Sixon2 fixed without any problem. So there are companies out there that fix products that is "outdated".

OK, I stand corrected. But that is why I said "generally".

Ian Grant · Oct 7, 2009

BrianShaw said:
Ian, please help me understand because I don't seem to know what folks mean when they say "have the aperture blades adjusted" or "calibrated". My experience on both old and new shutter is that they either work or don't (are broken) and they either accurately represent the indicated aperture number or don't (in which case I assume the scale is "adjusted" rather than the aperture mechanism itself). Please help me understand.

I think it's the way we use English, Europeans in general seem to use language far more precisely than most Americans, I'd add Canadians to the European side. It's maybe because the US was and still is such a melting pot mainly of immigrants from all over the world.

The OP says "adjust the aperture blades" the word blades in this case adds the detail, if he'd said adjust the aperture that would have been ambiguous and we'd assume the calibration.

Yes you're right normally an LF shutter's aperture blades usually work or are broken, sometimes a blade pops out of place, they are known to physically break as in lose a bit of the blade. This particular shutter's unusual because the aperture part is accessible, normally with Compur's and Copal's it's behind the shutter mechanism which has to be removed first. So the OP was lucky he could repair it.

But then OP strictly hasn't adjusted the aperture blades, there is no adjustment, they are either in or out of place, he's tightened up the parts that house them, and tightening is an adjustment.

Aperture scales aren't usually adjustable, the adjustment/calibration comes in when there's the wrong or no scale for a particular lens/shutter combination.

Hope that helps

Ian

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2009

Ian Grant said:
...

Thanks... I have a better understanding now. Thanks.

malcao · Oct 8, 2009

If I had used an instrument to adjust the aperture blades I would have called it calibration, but since I didn't I used the word adjustment.
Here are some photos
Photo 1: Cam adjustment when the lens is wide open.
Photo 2: Stop screws. My lens is 6.8 and when used here I could notice the aperture blades looking into the lens, I moved the screw one stop and no aperture blades could be seen, I suppose this is 5.6.
Photo 3: Here you can loosen the screws and adjust how big or smal the aperture will be and the just tight the screws.
I don't know if these possibilites are on all LF lenses, I think they are great features.

http://gallery.me.com/ifotograf#100059

Ian Grant · Oct 8, 2009

Thanks for clarifying, I have a Prontor Press and and a couple os Ibsor's (previous version) but there's no adjustments, same as the Compur & Copal's.

Prontor shutters are not as common as Compur/Copal particularly the newer ones.

Ian

BrianShaw · Oct 8, 2009

malcao said:
Here are some photos

My, my... that was educational. Thanks very much; I learned something new today!

Ian Grant · Oct 8, 2009

Brian & malcao, I wonder if that adjustment is to make sure the shutter's aperture blades can be adjusted to match the extra Adjusters that can be added. (Scroll down the page)

With Copal's and Compur's the widest aperture is often controlled by the diameter or the inner elements, and the minimum will go past the smallest stop. A classic example is the 90mm Angulon where the aperture opens way past f6.8, in fact it's nearly half way before you rach that aperture. But with an additional device like the Prontor takes you need that more definite control of Min & Max apertures, particularly as the same shutter would be used by manufacturers with different lenses and need adjusting appropriately.

Just a thought.

Ian

Bruce A Cahn · Oct 23, 2009

contact skgrimes.com

Schneider customer service

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