Schmutz in my XTOL

[jlpape]

Hi all,
Need a little advice. I have been using XTOL for a while and over the last month started using replenished XTOL. For every 120 roll I develop, I add 70ml of fresh stock. I develop on average 1 roll per day so turnover is high. Today I went to develop a couple of rolls of film and I see some large flakes in the liquid I poured out. I started to filter the solution, when I saw that the inside of the bottle (brown Kalt Data bottle) was lined in a cream color film, which matched the flakes in the liquid. I have not read of this happening on this forum and was wondering what you thought of it. I have not seen any flakes up to this point, but this is the first time I have looked in the bottle. I keep the bottle full when in storage and the temp up to today has been around 65F. Today, due to a hot spell, the liquid temp was around 70F. I develop mainly Ilford FP4+ with the occasional Plus-X or HP-5. Additionally, I always make the XTOL stock with distilled water. Any ideas?

 

[srs5694]

I've not seen this with XTOL (I've only used one package of XTOL), but I do see it occasionally with other developers that sit in their bottles for a while. When it happens, I dump the developer and thoroughly clean or discard the bottle. I figure there's little point in risking my negatives for a couple dollars worth of developer. As to causes, I don't know.

 

[funkpilz]

I've seen this with Rodinal, where the flakes were a clear type of dark brown (much like the liquid). Since I can get a new bottle for about €5, I just tossed this one.
I have no idea why it happened, I'm guessing it had gone bad because of the temperature or something, but I'd say you might want to mix up a fresh batch.

 

[srs5694]

One component of Rodinal (the p-aminophenol, IIRC) tends to form solid crystals in the stock-strength solution. This is normal and harmless, or so I understand. (If Photo Engineer or somebody else more familiar with the chemistry should contradict me, you should definitely take his word over mine.)

The sort of "schmutz" that jlpape is describing sounds different. If it's the same thing I've seen, it looks more like a bacterial growth you might find in a food product left in the refrigerator for too long, although I don't mean to imply that's what it is. (I just don't know what it is.) Maybe it's as harmless as the crystals in a bottle of Rodinal, maybe not.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

I'd switch to glass bottles when doing Xtol replenished. Be sure that your reels are clean, rinse after processing, especially after using PhotoFlo. Replenished Xtol does get a little blackish grey cloudy that will settle on the bottom of the bottle, quick shake to get it all mixed, you can use a clean coffee filter if it gets too much.

 

[markbarendt]

Normal with replenished Xtol.

Coffee filters on occasion are prudent but it hasn't affected my negs.

 

[jlpape]

I think the thing that concerned me more than the flakes was the coating on the side of the bottle. Is it normal to have a beige colored film deposit on the side of the bottle?

 

[Ian Grant]

As Mark says this is entirely normal with replenished developers, switching to glass bottles makes no difference, just use a coffee filer once in a while and clean the bottle.

Ian

 

[Anscojohn]

I clean the inside of bottles by putting hot soapy water and a handful of aquariam gravel in them and giving them a vigorous shaking and rolling until the insides are clean.

Hmmm, I wonder if I could patent this as Schmutzbegone!?

 

[Rick A]

My favorite bottle cleaner is "Efferdent" denture cleaning tablets. Just pop a couple of tabs into the offending bottle with warm water, and leave overnight, quick rinse next AM and voile (I'm feelin French today).This a trick I learned years ago, from an old friend who used it to clean a disgusting piece of glassware he filtered an "herbal" substance through (as he smoked it).
Filtering replenished chems through a coffee filter occasionally, and a fresh bottle around the same time (as stated before) are simple and inexpensive means of insuring no deposits on negatives.

 

[mrred]

I clean the inside of bottles by putting hot soapy water and a handful of aquariam gravel in them and giving them a vigorous shaking and rolling until the insides are clean.

Hmmm, I wonder if I could patent this as Schmutzbegone!?

Microsoft already did....

 

[Anscojohn]

Rainphot uses Efferdent.. OK. At my age, tho, I feel a bit more comfotable with a bag of aquarium gravel at the checkout, rather than denture cleaner. I would rather the sweet young thing at the checkout think that I have guppies, rather than false teeth!!

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I like your idea, John!

I too use replenished Xtol, and what you see is normal with replenished developers and is nothing to worry about. The coffee filter works fine to filter out the worst offenders, and something you may have to do every 50-100 rolls or so.

My Xtol looks very interesting in that I have used a lot of Foma 120 film lately, and the antihalation dye has colored my developer a deep turquoise color. With the little white flakes floating around in it, it looks like it's snowing underwater.

Don't worry about it.

I clean the inside of bottles by putting hot soapy water and a handful of aquariam gravel in them and giving them a vigorous shaking and rolling until the insides are clean.

Hmmm, I wonder if I could patent this as Schmutzbegone!?

 

[Tom Taylor]

Hi all,
Need a little advice. I have been using XTOL for a while and over the last month started using replenished XTOL. For every 120 roll I develop, I add 70ml of fresh stock. I develop on average 1 roll per day so turnover is high. Any ideas?

I wouldn't replenish. According to Kodak, 100mL of stock will develope one 8x10 sheet of film so the calculated saving of 30mL of stock per roll thru replinishment is minimal. Xtol is cheap and 5L of stock kept in a tank with a floating lid will last about 6 months.

 

[Ian Grant]

I wouldn't replenish. According to Kodak, 100mL of stock will develope one 8x10 sheet of film so the calculated saving of 30mL of stock per roll thru replinishment is minimal. Xtol is cheap and 5L of stock kept in a tank with a floating lid will last about 6 months.

Replenishment gives higher quality results once the developer has seasoned, this goes for many other developers as well like D76/ID-11, Microphen etc.

The advantages are far greater economy, better tonality, sharpness/definition, as well as finer grain.

Ian

 

[markbarendt]

I'm with Ian, even if it wasn't more economical (which it is), I'd still do it for the other advantages.

 

[Tom Taylor]

But then you couldn't use it diluted 1:1 right?

 

[markbarendt]

But then you couldn't use it diluted 1:1 right?

That is true but redundant. Using seasoned replenished Xtol provides the same advantages as dilution, better sharpness, less grain, better economy...

 

[Ian Grant]

That is true but redundant. Using seasoned replenished Xtol provides the same advantages as dilution, better sharpness, less grain, better economy...

Definitely, all the advantages of using dilute but more practical and economic, and far faster to work with. My own experience is that Kodaks replenishment rate is overkill, I never replenished at anything close to the suggested rate.

I began using replenished developers while at school, it's second nature.

Ian

 

[jlpape]

Thanks all... crap (or should i say schmutz), I dumped the xtol that I had thinking it went bad. Will start a new batch this weekend and not worry about the film. Filter and clean the bottle. Out of curiosity, anyone know what the film is. Looks similar to the color of the emulsion of the film.

 

[Rick A]

Rainphot uses Efferdent.. OK. At my age, tho, I feel a bit more comfotable with a bag of aquarium gravel at the checkout, rather than denture cleaner. I would rather the sweet young thing at the checkout think that I have guppies, rather than false teeth!!

I use it for cleaning glassware. I still use Crest and a toothbrush on the pearly whites. My buddy used Efferdent to clean his b**g to rid it of tar and other residue. Its a no effort clean out, whatever is in the stuff boils the gunk outta everything.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Ian, what kind of numbers are you talking about for your replenishment amounts?

 

[Ian Grant]

Ian, what kind of numbers are you talking about for your replenishment amounts?

Around 25ml per 35mm or 120film, or 4 5x4's. There's two types of replenishment Topping up & Bleed, this rate is in between.

Ian

 

[markbarendt]

Wow Ian,

That's about 1/3 of what I've been using.

This is the first time I've heard those terms (Topping up & Bleed) applied to replenishment. So I don't make assumptions here could you define them.

 

[Anscojohn]

My buddy used Efferdent to clean his b**g to rid it of tar and other residue. Its a no effort clean out, whatever is in the stuff boils the gunk outta everything.[/QUOTE]

**********
To clean his b++g? blog? or what? I may have tar in the b..g and not know it! Help me out here, Rain. :confused: