Isn't that true for negative film but not chrome? With chromes, you try to prevent over-exposing highlights even if the shadows go black because shots are lost if you burn the highlights.
Yes! The last paragraph has it down to a T as far as what I was trying to accomplish. Basically what was going on was I wanted to know what the "flat" or "baseline" was on the scanner, (which I discovered was 100 / 1.00 / 200 in the display, don't ask me what they mean but that it) now when I scan, I can start with that, scan, and see what I get, then if its exactly how I envisioned it, I can then analyze the negative and learn what a "perfect" negative looks like, then keep doing that to stuff and user stand when I've done it right then adjust my shooting technique to match that.
To me the experimentation is much better and using my eyes helps me, rather than staring at a graph curve thing.
Thanks L Gebhardt.
Your name sounds familiar. You're not the guy who left APUG when he had to switch to digital printing after having issues with darkroom plumbing etc. are you?
If you are I think I saw a book you wrote at Barns & Noble?
Or am I totally off base?
~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
Glad that helps. You're using your scanner as a sort of densitometer, but the numbers you reference are meaningless outside of your scanner and software. So if you get a new one you will need to reconfigure. That's why it's better to use a densitometer. Those are calibrated to known standards, and many people can compare results such as curves. You also dont have a good standard to compare one film to another. For example Acros has much less base density than FP4+. So your numbers will not work between the two. What you are doing is probably good enough to make sure similar films are exposed and developed similarly, but you should at least know the limitations.
I am on APUG, but I'm not the guy you are thinking of - still printing in the darkroom, and no books to my name.
Scanning slides with a consumer scanner is only useful if you are going to put them on the web, or make a catalog. Shadow detail is not that important on the web. If you want more detail in the shadows, with the least amount of noise, or you want to make exquisite prints, use a drum scanner. You're a Pro, deliver Pro results...
As to the numbers, ignore them. Look at the histogram and make sure you have a good spread. Don't ever choose a white or black point. Move the sliders so that the tones will separate and you can do something with it in Photoshop.
I will probably never be able to afford a drum scan, a $100 per image that's asking too much...
Plus I don't need that much detail I don't make anything bigger than in the 20x30 range and I've had no issue going that size in 120 format from my home scanner.
Secondly, I don't really understand histograms, I've never understood how to read graphs and charts for photography, I understand the image I see...
I also don't use photoshop. I don't really need to, my images to me are fine, I use Lightroom for basic adjustments but that's it. I think if you're "a pro" as you say, you shouldn't need PS because you've made the image correctly in the first place.
Lenny How and where do you move the sliders?
I'm scanning with an Epson V600 flat bed using the Epson scan software. If the scanners parameters are applied after the scan, does it matter to slide the sliders before the scan or just scan "flat"? If it is better to set the sliders, where would you recommend to place them? Thanks Alan.This is very different from other scanning software which does a raw scan and applies the parameters you set afterwards.
I'm scanning with an Epson V600 flat bed using the Epson scan software. If the scanners parameters are applied after the scan, does it matter to slide the sliders before the scan or just scan "flat"? If it is better to set the sliders, where would you recommend to place them? Thanks Alan.
Someone once indicated that you get more bits of colors of you move the two sliders into close to the right and left ends of the histogram before you scan rather than leaving the sliders at 0 and 255. Is that true?
The Epson software works fine and it will extract all of the information from your negative. Silverfast is just more complicated and does not do anything for you that you cannot do later in post processing.Sorry, the v750 which comes with both EPSONscan and Silverfast 6(free upgrade to 8 if you have a new Mac OS).
~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
...I was confused. Turns out there is another Daniel Stone, who lives in LA, who has a drum scanner, that I have assisted on occasion with some scanning tips...
That's a ridiculous statement. First of all, you should be able to look at a histogram and see the distribution of pixels. There is a difference if you have a skinny line of them in the middle or you have a nice wide spread from end to end. Anyone can explain it to you and it provides some some amount of information that is useful, depending on what you are doing.
Secondly, the changes that pros make in PhotoShop are not because they didn't get it right in the first place. It's because they want to do something with the image that may not be possible with the sliders in Lightroom. To suggest otherwise is offensive.
I've been exposing, developing and printing for more than 50 years and my exposures are excellent. I use PhotoShop because I am after a certain quality, and control. I actually understand what all those sliders do in Lightroom and some of them are great while others degrade the image considerably. This is true in PhotoShop as well.
Lenny
Calling it ridiculous that someone doesn't understand something is also insulting. Everyone has their strengths, and weaknesses, I can't read graphs and charts (except navigation maps) in terms of photography, I know that if the dark part goes up the side of either end a LOT then it's under or over exposed, the rest is a mystery, but I can look at a picture scanned and adjust the sliders to get what I want.
Anything that's photography / darkroom related can be done in Lightroom, anything that can't be done and needs photoshop is graphic art, not photography. To suggest otherwise is insulting to photography as an art which is different than graphic art. People often confuse the two. If you disagree, you might not be aware of lightrooms capabilities which are extensive.
Anything that's photography / darkroom related can be done in Lightroom, anything that can't be done and needs photoshop is graphic art, not photography. To suggest otherwise is insulting to photography as an art which is different than graphic art. People often confuse the two. If you disagree, you might not be aware of lightrooms capabilities which are extensive.
I don’t think you would classify most of the classic photographers like Adams and Weston as graphic artists, but if you apply your strict distinction that would be what you are implying.To both that responded. I wasn't trying to start a controversy or "stir things up" I was just expressing my view of what is considered photography vs "graphic arts" as they have evolved today. …
I don’t think you would classify most of the classic photographers like Adams and Weston as graphic artists, but if you apply your strict distinction that would be what you are implying.
Both of them (and many others) significantly altered what they actually saw to achieve what they wanted to display in a print. This included retouching negatives to remove defects and alter densities, manipulating the exposure and development process, dodging and burning during printing and retouching the final print.
Based on his description of the process, Adams in particular would have welcomed the labor savings available with today’s hybrid process.
Nevertheless, they might not have taken to HDR or other graphic processes available today because it would probably not have agreed with their vision. Man Ray, on the other hand, would have loved it all.
Yes and Adams was both a photographer and a printing master. But I would say that anything Adams did in the darkroom could be done in Lightroom
~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think Lightroom is the litmus test you are looking for. The real question is what you do to the image before you print it.
Maybe all you do is remove dust and scratches, level, crop, change brightness and contrast and, for color adjust for color temperature or neutral gray. That's pretty much all I ever do. Many programs allow you to do that.
If you go further and apply graduated filters or use dodging and burning methods, even masks, are you crossing the line? If you clone out candy wrappers or power lines, is that too much? If you combine two or more images because you don't have a lens that is wide enough or a film/sensor with enough latitude, maybe that's too far.
I'm sure you have heard the joke about the man who offered a woman a million dollars cash to sleep with him and she accepted, but declined when he then offered $5... "We have established what you are, we are just quibbling over the price."
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