SCANNING Scalia B&W Reversal ?

jtk · Jan 17, 2019

Adox Scala 160 ISO BW Reversal

What's your PRINTING experience with scans from Scalia direct positive?

Do you use the FOMA developer kit?

I'm asking because I've had remarkable success Nikon-scanning old Kodachrome K14 and converting to B&W via NIK

Lachlan Young · Jan 17, 2019

I like it a lot, it's straightforward to scan if your scanner has adequate Dmax etc. No different from any other BW film in terms of making prints from scans if you know what you're doing - though it is worth noting that you can see the strengths of negative film just about as as clearly in BW as you can with colour neg. I've tended to get it run in the Scala process at Photostudio 13, & have made optically enlarged negatives from it (my main reason for using it).

jtk · Jan 17, 2019

Lachlan Young said:
I like it a lot, it's straightforward to scan if your scanner has adequate Dmax etc. No different from any other BW film in terms of making prints from scans if you know what you're doing - though it is worth noting that you can see the strengths of negative film just about as as clearly in BW as you can with colour neg. I've tended to get it run in the Scala process at Photostudio 13, & have made optically enlarged negatives from it (my main reason for using it).

I'd love to see examples of those scans online. I've recently learned that Kodachrome converts better than Ektachrome to B&W and is a LOT better than printing color negs as B&W. By "better" I mean detail resolution, sense of sharpness, and tonal scale.

In the US we appear to have only one laboratory that processes B&W as direct positive slides... that's Dr5 (strange name).

Bob Carnie · Jan 18, 2019

Scala is basically Agfa 100 negative film,, I imagine it scans as well as any film

wyofilm · Jan 18, 2019

jtk said:
Dr5

A quirky website (http://dr5.com/). I have used them once for reversal processing on a couple of test rolls. Results were great and I would use DR5 again (keep in mind a bit slow). There is a wealth of information on what films reverse well and which don't - at least by his process. They offer a scanning service that, which I have not used. Worth a look.

destroya · Jan 18, 2019

I have scanned many B&W slides. while I dont use the scalia process ( i use a process that I got from mr. red), the results print fine. while I usually darkroom print my B&W negs, I have scanned and printed some. Photoshop allows for so many possibilities, that I dont think it matter if its a positive or a negative image. The positive does give a slightly sharper image as well as more contrast. that can be both good and bad depending on your scanner.

My results are getting to the point that its very hard for me to want to set up the temp darkroom and all that it entails.

If you develop your own B&W negs, than doing your own B&W slides at home is not hard. give it a try

jtk · Jan 18, 2019

Bob Carnie said:
Scala is basically Agfa 100 negative film,, I imagine it scans as well as any film

It stops being "basically Agfa 100 negarive film" when it's reversed.

I'm wondering how that SLIDE version scans...is it better than B&W converted E6, for example? Is it like Velvia, which is NFG for B&W conversion due to its problems with deep shadows? Is it as amazing as B&W converted Kodachrome K14 can be... which unfortunately shares that shadow issue with Kodachrome?

Bob Carnie · Jan 19, 2019

When Scala franchises were being offered I was asked if I wanted to participate, At the time it was a major financial investment , and I was paying down a loan for a buyout of my partner who had to leave due to cancer. The machine went to Toronto Image Works and I think it was a success for Ed for years but people did lose interest once the digital revolution hit us all.
I had an application for making direct enlarged negs using Eds Scala machine, I cannot remember exactly what I did but it worked .

jtk · Jan 20, 2019

What is a "Scala machine" ? Me, I'd want to develop it on Nikor SS reels.

jtk · Jan 20, 2019

destroya said:
I have scanned many B&W slides. while I dont use the scalia process ( i use a process that I got from mr. red), the results print fine. while I usually darkroom print my B&W negs, I have scanned and printed some. Photoshop allows for so many possibilities, that I dont think it matter if its a positive or a negative image. The positive does give a slightly sharper image as well as more contrast. that can be both good and bad depending on your scanner.

My results are getting to the point that its very hard for me to want to set up the temp darkroom and all that it entails.

If you develop your own B&W negs, than doing your own B&W slides at home is not hard. give it a try

What/where is the "mr.red" you mentioned? Thanks!

Bob Carnie · Jan 21, 2019

jtk said:
What is a "Scala machine" ? Me, I'd want to develop it on Nikor SS reels.

Agfa , licensed out Machines to do Scala - they were put in each major city North America... in Toronto there was 1 - Ed Burtynsky's lab decided to take the franchise on this. 1996 timeline

jtk · Jan 21, 2019

Bob Carnie said:
Agfa , licensed out Machines to do Scala - they were put in each major city North America... in Toronto there was 1 - Ed Burtynsky's lab decided to take the franchise on this. 1996 timeline

Do you mean negative processing machine or do you mean slide processor?

Bob Carnie · Jan 21, 2019

Hybrid for the day ,,, Scala film starts out as a negative, but during the machines cycle a flash of light is given from the bottom of one of the tanks which reverses the image to positive... I doubt there are any Scala machines in operation these days, Digital Capture made them obsolete... DR5 does there process which is more hand controlled.

Tropper · Jan 24, 2019

Bob Carnie said:
Hybrid for the day ,,, Scala film starts out as a negative, but during the machines cycle a flash of light is given from the bottom of one of the tanks which reverses the image to positive... I doubt there are any Scala machines in operation these days, Digital Capture made them obsolete... DR5 does there process which is more hand controlled.

Never heard much about Scala either. Must be long gone since the start of digital.

Bob Carnie · Jan 25, 2019

Tropper said:
Never heard much about Scala either. Must be long gone since the start of digital.

Yes digital killed my film processing business , as well it took down all the major E6 , labs. Only Mail order survived

runswithsizzers · Feb 15, 2019

I can't answer your question about printing from b&w positives - haven't tried it yet.

You can see scans of some Ilford HP5+ I had developed by dr5 as chromes <here> and <here> - but those have been worked over in Photoshop/Lightroom, so they may not be that useful to you. I would say they were slightly better/easier to scan than b&w negatives, but my experiece with scanning b&w negs is limited to a few rolls of TRI-X and Panatomic X I shot back in the 1970s, so what do I know?

I will say this, scanned as 16-bit TIFs the dr5 positives had an amazing amount of shadow detail. Just keep digging and never hit bottom. Quite a delightful change for me after scanning slide film for years, and not having much luck in the shadows.The highlights were more of a problem. Like color slide film, expose with care to keep the highlights.

As previously mentioned, dr5 is about the only place in the US to send Scala / Foma R for processing. My first two rolls of HP5+ were in dr5's lab for about 10 days; they looked good as positives, no problems. This was back in November. Since then, I've sent dr5 four more rolls, including some Scala 160. After about 3 weeks I sent an email inquiry and I was told they were expecting to process my film "within a few days."

Two weeks later, stil nothing, so I emailed again. The reply I got from dw (presumably David Wood, the founder of dr5):
"I cant keep replying to such nonsense. All I can say is folks either have to deal with reality, or just don't send your film here any longer."
Apparently, the 'reality' is that dr5 waits until they have enough customer's films for a processing run - and that may take 2 weeks, or 2 months or ... well I really don't know what the maximum wait might be.

So, one day I may be able to report on how Scala scans, but not yet.

Meanwhile I have a roll of Fomapan R (reversal) film in the camera, but I am loosing my enthusiasm for sending it to dr5.

Has anyone tried the Foma Reversal Process Developing Kit to develop either Scala or Foma R? (the kit is available in the US from B&H or Freestyle).

And if anyone has tried both the Foma kit and dr5, how do they compare?

brbo · Apr 11, 2019

I've shot a few rolls of Fomapan R 100 and developed them in Foma kit. No experience with dr5 so I don't know how it compares to Foma:

Some shots scanned on various scanners...

runswithsizzers · Apr 11, 2019

brbo said:
I've shot a few rolls of Fomapan R 100 and developed them in Foma kit. No experience with dr5 so I don't know how it compares to Foma:

Some shots scanned on various scanners...

Wow! Thanks for that. Those look good. I am inspired to finish up the roll of Fomapan R that is now in my camera.

Any comments on the Foma home kit? You got good resutls, obviously, but was the process clear and orderly? How about cost efficiency? Can you use the kit as several small batches - say enough to do two rolls now, then two rolls next month, and the rest later - or must all the chemistry be used within a short time of opening?

What camera did you use to make those longer (panoramic) negatives? Very nice!
OK, I think I found it - a Horizon, right? Is yours a newer one (plastic) like the ones Lomography is selling, or do you have an older one?

jtk · Apr 11, 2019

Bob Carnie said:
Hybrid for the day ,,, Scala film starts out as a negative, but during the machines cycle a flash of light is given from the bottom of one of the tanks which reverses the image to positive... I doubt there are any Scala machines in operation these days, Digital Capture made them obsolete... DR5 does there process which is more hand controlled.

Maybe I mentioned this before: "Scala machines" sound like E3 Ektachrome machines...which may still be gathering dust somewhere... Might also be easily processed on Colenta rotary, which also had re-exposure light system...

brbo · Apr 11, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Wow! Thanks for that. Those look good. I am inspired to finish up the roll of Fomapan R that is now in my camera.

Any comments on the Foma home kit? You got good resutls, obviously, but was the process clear and orderly? How about cost efficiency? Can you use the kit as several small batches - say enough to do two rolls now, then two rolls next month, and the rest later - or must all the chemistry be used within a short time of opening?

What camera did you use to make those longer (panoramic) negatives? Very nice!
OK, I think I found it - a Horizon, right? Is yours a newer one (plastic) like the ones Lomography is selling, or do you have an older one?

I found Foma kit easy to use. I did use it fairly quickly, developing one or two rolls at a time within maybe 3-4 weeks. You get 8 rolls from the kit doing "one shot", mixing immediately before processing as advised by Foma.

My Horizon 202 was an earlier one, I don't have it anymore. It's a great and fun camera but I found it to be a bit limiting and finding a very affordable XPan didn't help Horizon's case

runswithsizzers · Apr 11, 2019

brbo said:
I found Foma kit easy to use. I did use it fairly quickly, developing one or two rolls at a time within maybe 3-4 weeks. You get 8 rolls from the kit doing "one shot", mixing immediately before processing as advised by Foma.

My Horizon 202 was an earlier one, I don't have it anymore. It's a great and fun camera but I found it to be a bit limiting and finding a very affordable XPan didn't help Horizon's case

Thanks for your feedback on the Foma home kit. I am going to try one this summer.

A quick check on the American auction site, and I saw the HASSELBLAD XPAN being offered for $3000-$5000 US. Are we talking about the same camera - or is your definition of "affordable" a lot different from mine? To avoid further hijacking this thread (apologies to @jtk), I will start another thread about panorama options.

More on-topic. I am just now photographing some Adox Scala positives using an enlarger lens mounted to bellows mounted to my 16MP Fuji X-E2. I will be comparing that method of digitizing film to the results I get from my old Minolta Dimage Scan Elite F-2900.

brbo · Apr 11, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
A quick check on the American auction site, and I saw the HASSELBLAD XPAN being offered for $3000-$5000 US. Are we talking about the same camera - or is your definition of "affordable" a lot different from mine? To avoid further hijacking this thread (apologies to @jtk), I will start another thread about panorama options.

I got mine for 1.100 EUR (with 45 and 90 lens, center filter and lens hood). A lot of money for me, yes. A lot more than Horizon 202. If I wanted a panoramic camera today, I definitely couldn't afford to buy XPan.

On topic: there is also Rollei BW reversal kit, anyone tried that?

runswithsizzers · Apr 11, 2019

brbo said:
[...]

On topic: there is also Rollei BW reversal kit, anyone tried that?

Good to know! Up until now I would have said the Foma Reversal Process Developing Kit was the only off-the-shelf reversal kit available in the USA. I am happy to be wrong about that! Good to have a choice.

I notice neither Scala nor Fomapan R are on the list of films for which the Agfa kit "has been specially optimized" - can anyone comment on the actual use of the Agfa kit with these films, or any other?

SCANNING Scalia B&W Reversal ?

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