Scanning issues with Kodak Ektar 100

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David A. Goldfarb

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Continuing a discussion from APUG at:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

In short, what are people doing to get good scans from Ektar 100 without problems like a cyan cast that many people are seeing?
 

Diapositivo

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In short:

Scanner profiling;
Monitor profiling (very important);
Scan the negative image in raw as negative so that you have to scan only once;
Use ColorPerfect to invert the image, not Photoshop's inversion algorithm;

This procedure is going to give good results with whatever negative that would print well on paper and would avoid the cyan sky or the colour casts that are often the result of poor scanning technique.

For better results:
create a "film profile" by taking pictures of an opaque target in a neutral environment (no coloured objects nearby such as red brick wall, green grass) with sun light (not shade light).
Specify the film profile to the scanner each time you scan that negative film.

Some colour casts are sometimes unavoidable (blue shade when the scene is partially in shade partially in the sun, green cast under a tree etc.) with film just like with digital. For optimal results is the light source which must be controlled.
 

Pioneer

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I don't use a lot of this being more partial to Kodak's Portra films, but I don't remember this being all that hard to scan on my little Epson V500. Now I am going to have to go back and take a look at some of my past scans to see if they turned out as expected? I know the scans I get from NCP, when I have them do the scans, have turned out great so I am sure they have Ektar pretty well profiled.
 

Rudeofus

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In short:

Scanner profiling;
Monitor profiling (very important);
I don't have to do this with all my other films and still get usable results. If Ektar and only Ektar causes these problems, and these problems pop up consistently across scanner models, something is messed up with Ektar's color characteristics.

I'd love to learn what I have to do with the curves in order to get rid of these ugly color casts from Ektar.
For better results:
create a "film profile" by taking pictures of an opaque target in a neutral environment (no coloured objects nearby such as red brick wall, green grass) with sun light (not shade light).
Specify the film profile to the scanner each time you scan that negative film.
Does anyone have a working color profile for vuescan and Kodak Ektar? Having one for vuescan and one for Silverfast would probably avoid 98% of these cat calls against Ektar, and would have me consider using Ektar again ...
 

Pioneer

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Does anyone have a working color profile for vuescan and Kodak Ektar? Having one for vuescan and one for Silverfast would probably avoid 98% of these cat calls against Ektar, and would have me consider using Ektar again ...

I agree with this. I use Silverfast as well as the native Epson scanning software. If profiles are the best way to go then perhaps there are some options that can be shared by all. Meanwhile, I still find use for Ektar but I guess I will ensure that my Ektar shots are scanned by my lab.
 

timparkin

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I've done an awful lot of scanning over the last few years and offer a professional scanning service. Ektar is one of the more difficult films to scan for one particular reason but there are also other scanning issues that people could change to get better results.

1) Try *not* profiling your scanner and switching off all colour management when scanning negatives. A good profile is great for positives but the complex icc profile shapes can really screw around with the results when you are trying to invert. Most scanners are linear devices and a linear scan is the best starting point to do your own custom inversion (which I highly recommend).

2) Most films are linear in the center of their dynamic range. The shadows for most negative films have different toe shapes in each colour channel (or at least the same shape but they kick in at different exposures). Combine this with the fact that a lot of software trys to create a neutral black and white point quickly leads to colour crossovers.

3) Don't try and get a perfect colour balance or contrast immediately after inversion. You're looking for a fairly flat neutral colour

The second point is critical and one of the reasons Ektar causes problems. Ektar only has a couple of stops of linear response in the shadows and then immediately starts going blue or blue-violet.

I've worked on a technique in photoshops that can help with this and it's based on using 'auto' curves but changing the options.

When you have a curves layer you can alt click on the 'auto' to get the options screen up (possibly a different key combination for windows). The options pallete has the following controls (make sure you are in 'enhance per channel contrast')

for the shadows and highlights you get a target colour and a clip percentage. The key here is to change the clip percentage to a larger figure. This means that the neutral point is set up to 9.99% in from the extreme light or dark level. Typically this avoids setting a neutral point in the toe of the film or on specular highlights.

Obviously we end up with clipped highlights and shadows now. Now go into the target colour and change the brightness. If you're working on shadows, change the target colour from black to a level of grey where you can't see any clipping. Do the same for the highlights. If you can't find the exact point where clipping stops, just make the bright point a light grey and the dark point a dark grey. You can then use the auto curves in a second layer using 'enhance monochromatic contrast' with clipping levels of '0%' or '0.01%'.

The result is probably a low contrast image, now stick a nice curve on it to add contrast and bring the brightness of the mid-tones up.

Finally - use the colour balance tool to make some tweaks. A good tip when using this is to slide each slider full left for a few seconds then full right for a few seconds (and repeat a couple of times maybe). This 'clears' you visual memory of what the picture was looking like so that you can approach it with a neutral outlook.

In reality this process only takes about 30 seconds. The only final step I sometimes make is to fix the colour shift in the deep shadows. You can do this with by creating a template curve in photoshop with 8 points on each colour channel. Save this as a default which you can use as a preset on any picture. I then use the bottom point on these curves to fix any 'toe' colour issues. For instance Portra 400 has a serious magenta shift in shadows below about -3 to -4 stops. A boost in the green channel of the next to bottom point sorts this out. For Ektar you need to pull the blue channel down a bit (and potentially push the next to bottom point on the green channel up slightly).

If you have a bunch of shots in similar conditions, you can pull the whole strip in in one go, make multiple sections just picking out the image area on each frame and use this as a mask for the whole strip.

If you're interested, here's a strip of Portra 400 with each frame a whole one stop bracket. -3 on the right , +7 on the left. You can see that the shadows tend to blue-violet and the highlights tend to a yellow (with a hint of green). This is the type of colour crossover that can be difficult to deal with when looking for neutral shadows and highlights.

http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/tmp/portra-all-compensate.jpg
 

Les Sarile

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Although I've only shot a few dozen rolls of Kodak Ektar 100, I've found it to be a step up to the previously discontinued Kodak 100UC. Below is a stitch of four frames of Ektar - batch scanned using Nikonscan and automatically stitched with the free download Microsoft Research Image Composite Editor

standard.jpg
Larger link -> Kodak Ektar 100 stitch
 

Les Sarile

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An example of what I think shows off the impressive qualities of Kodak Ektar 100 can be seen at Kodak Ektar 100. If you hover over the image, you will have the option of viewing the original Nikon Coolscan full res file which is best viewed with a fast connection.
 

Pioneer

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Those are very, very well done images. It certainly show the type of result that Ektar is supposed to provide. Thanks for letting us view them.
 

Les Sarile

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Just to be sure that I am not misleading anyone, those images are not mine but a friend's. He is primarily a TMAX100 and Fuji Velvia 50 shooter but wanted to see what Ektar could do.
 

John Louis

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Just wanted to add something. I've found the iPhone's 'three click invert' mode (latest update) invaluable for assessing negatives on the light box - b&w and colour. I've done this with some of my Ektar negs and even viewed in this way, colours are completely neutral with no signs of the aforementioned cyan cast. I've been surprised myself by how Portra-like the Ektar colours look in this 'raw mode'. In my mind this iPhone trick is the most convenient way to find out what you're working with, before wet prints/sending out for scanning. Not an alternative to contact printing however, due to the dynamic range of the iPhone camera - skies will be blown out almost regardless of what information is there.

For those who have been complaining about Ektar colour I suggest giving this a try. Quickest way to get some peace of mind.
 

Ihmemies

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I have Nikon LS-50 and I scan Ektar 100 with Vuescan as negative. Color settings: none. Vuescan saves the files as 16bit tiff and the scans look something like this: http://hakkarainen.kuvat.fi/tempo/spam2/r224_k07_unedited.jpg

Then I use autolevels in photoshop or adjust black/whitepoints & WB in Lightroom and get something like this: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7255/7602966582_c3762ee26a_o.jpg ( there was dirt in camera's film port so there's that black line at the sky, don't mind that :wink:

It's not complicated at all. The only reason I don't use Vuescan's color adjustments is that I want everything the scanner can get out of the film. Vuescan's white point adjustment makes highlights look ugly so I must adjust it myself.

To clarify, it's up to the user if he/she wants to make Ektar scans cyan. Here's one example where I added cyan because I like to tweak colors from image to image: http://hakkarainen.kuvat.fi/temp/vappukulkue.jpg
 

chuck94022

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I found the ColorPerfect PS plugin to be not so perfect with Ektar. I got cyan with it. I have used Silverfast's negafix for Ektar with good results. But unfortunately that leaves you with 8 bit channels, which I don't like. So I basically follow Tim Parkin's guidance of doing it by hand in PS. I can get it close that way, then frequently a tap on the Auto Color menu item will bring it into balance (but not always). With all that said, I am not expert on color balance, I have a difficult time seeing small changes. I need more eye training I guess. I find it much easier to color balance black and white! :smile:

Regarding the comment on the iPhone triple click feature: with color negative, I don't see how you get neutral colors with the orange mask... I can see it being useful for proofing B&W negatives though, I guess. Just never tried it.
 

hoffy

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Interesting read this. I am still very new to scanning in general and I have to admit that Ektar is doing my head in. I have followed Ihmemies recommendation above and just gone an auto setting, which appears to have given me the best results thus far....I kind of feel like this is cheating, but I have to admit I have a lot to learn when it comes to scanning in general.

In relation to inversion, is it best to invert when scanning (currently using vuescan), or is it better to do it in PS (considering I am not using any plugins).

Cheers
 
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