Scanning for top quality, speed and efficiency

Nicole · Oct 23, 2007

I need to venture over here from APUG a little more often since I spend most of my days scanning negatives. Too many hours are in front of the pc scanning on my Epson V800 to create proofs and for large projector viewing. If I pay the lab top dollar to scan for me so I can sleep then the scans return with shadows all blocked up and I find myself pulling negs out to rescan. Most frustrating. What have you found that ensures a good high quality scan that's very quick and efficient?

Best regards,
Nicole

Derek Lofgreen · Oct 23, 2007

I know how you feel about the quality of scans coming from the lab. I compare my supposedly inferior flatbed scans to the scans my lab makes prints from and my scans blow them away. I think what is happening is that your lab, like mine, scan with their Fuji frontier system. Super crappy scans. Ask them to use a dedicated scanner and see what the difference is. It will probably cost more. Just my 2 cents.

D.

Nicole · Oct 23, 2007

Hi Derek!! Great to see you here too. I hear what you're saying. I think I may be better off employing someone to do all my scanning for me.

Doug Fisher · Oct 23, 2007

>>If I pay the lab top dollar to scan for me <<

The problem is often due to the variance in scanner operator ability. Basic scanning that produces mediocre scans isn't that hard but it is almost an art to get the best out of any scanner, especially a drum scanner. My guess is that your the scanner at your lab is not up to snuff on his/her scanning skills. You might want to look for another service where the operator has good equipment and has been doing scanning services for years.

Doug

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 23, 2007

Nicole, I had a similar experience to yours, but I found the culprit.
The lab I used had a very nice Scitex Eversmart system, and they used to employ a person that was completely and wholly dedicated to doing digital work from flat art and film. His scans were phenomenal with shadow detail and highlight sparkle that just sang. The day came I had to have a 4x5 chrome scanned for large printing and I used the same lab and got a $*^(#^ scan in return. Turned out the person normally doing the scanning had left the company and the owner had done the work thinking he knew what he was doing... Goes to prove how talent is important. The trick is to find it. Still looking for that talent, three years later.

So, I'll second Doug's sentiments. Nice to see you over here!

- Thomas

toyotadesigner · Oct 23, 2007

What is the film you are scanning - 35mm, MF or LF?

Which software are you using - Epson or VueScan?

tom_micklin · Oct 23, 2007

Nicole,
I couldn't get good, consistent film scans until I bought the full version of Silverfast.
VueScan also works well.
I work with Medium and Large Format films. Even the software didn't do a great job on 35mm.
Regards,
Tom

toyotadesigner · Oct 24, 2007

Regarding VueScan: over the last week I've tested with Ed Hamrick the driver for the Nikon Coolscan LS 9000, and we finally could convince the scanner to scan the image frames exactly as specified, that means the 'Frame Space' is running like a charm now. No more 'Frame Offset', nothing.

I've watched VueScan very closely over the last months and a couple of weeks ago I purchased it, because it

- delivers a much better color rendition than NikonScan
- drives the scanner at least twice as fast as NikonScan
- lets you save profiles for any type of film, image size, resolution, and all the nine yards.
- delivers much more detail in shadow areas (for my slides) than NikonScan, with smoother gradients and color transitions
- scans a lot sharper than NikonScan
- allows you to continue working on the next image while the previous file is saved to disk
- and much, much more

Give VueScan a chance - it should bring back the fun to scanning with your scanner as well.
Just click here: http://www.hamrick.com

Ted Harris · Oct 24, 2007

Nicole,

You can go only so far with the prosumer scanners ... they should be able to deliver decent results up to 11x14 and maybe 16x20. Of course, YMMV and it does depend on how picky you are. The problem for larger prints, or large projection for that matter is the Dmax capabilities they have (or rather don't have). If you have a lot of subtle shadow detail that you want to be sure is visible in a print or a large projection then it just isn't going to happen from a scan from oneof the prosumer scanners.

That said, you have to work hard to find an operator that knows what he/she is doing in a lab and a lab that lets the operator take the time to do the scan properly rahter than doing auto settings.

frugal · Oct 25, 2007

I'll echo what Jens said in terms of the excellent support for Ed, he was incredibly responsive with me when I was having issues with the film holder for my scanner (frame spacing was off). I also found another flaw with the program and he took care of that one extremely quickly as well. And by "extremely quickly" I mean that he was getting test versions of the software to me almost faster than I could try them out, I really felt like he was waiting for me rather than me waiting for him.

Plus, he's incredibly good about supporting you with free upgrades when you purchase the licence (I think there's a lesser licence now that doesn't include this level of support), I bought my licence back in '99 or 2000 and have been supported ever since, even when switching scanners.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 26, 2007

VueScan rocks!

I just downloaded this software, and it is true that I enjoy, to a much greater degree, to scan prints using this over the Epson software. Wow, what a difference, a whole other level of control.

Just thought I'd throw that out there in case anybody else is thinking about getting it. The Pro version is great! Thank you for bringing this to the table.

- Thomas

jens g.r. benthien said:
Regarding VueScan: over the last week I've tested with Ed Hamrick the driver for the Nikon Coolscan LS 9000, and we finally could convince the scanner to scan the image frames exactly as specified, that means the 'Frame Space' is running like a charm now. No more 'Frame Offset', nothinhttp://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/images/editor/smilie.gif
http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/images/editor/smilie.gifg.

I've watched VueScan very closely over the last months and a couple of weeks ago I purchased it, because it

- delivers a much better color rendition than NikonScan
- drives the scanner at least twice as fast as NikonScan
- lets you save profiles for any type of film, image size, resolution, and all the nine yards.
- delivers much more detail in shadow areas (for my slides) than NikonScan, with smoother gradients and color transitions
- scans a lot sharper than NikonScan
- allows you to continue working on the next image while the previous file is saved to disk
- and much, much more

Give VueScan a chance - it should bring back the fun to scanning with your scanner as well.
Just click here: http://www.hamrick.com

claudermilk · Oct 26, 2007

Just want to say thanks for the VueScan info. I've been pondering my options for scanner & apps. I've petty much settled on a V700 + VueScan. Your posts make me pretty comfortable that's the right choice.

toyotadesigner · Oct 27, 2007

A few things I should add to the VueScan information:

At least with my Coolscan LS 5000 and 9000 VueScan handles the dark areas a lot better than NikonScan. It exploits (correct word?) the Dmax of the scanner much better.

I considered to purchase an Imacon because of the trouble I had with Nikon scan and my slides. With VueScan now I get almost the same results as with an Imacon. When I say almost I mean that the Imacon scans are just a tad better in dark areas, but the dust and scratch removal of the Nikon is second to none.

I've just re-scanned several 35mm negatives I've shot last year. Geez, what a difference! It's a real time saver because the scans with VueScan require less post scan editing with i.e. LightZone, so the investment of some US$ 90 pays off very fast.

A very important point: you can use your serial number for an supported platform, that means with Windoze, Mac and Linux. Ever found a really professional scan software for Linux? Now you have it. It works like a charm on Linux, because Linux is far better regarding memory management.

Maybe I should add a nice trick here: select the 'color' tab, and in the preview window right click your mouse on a gray area, and you'll have a perfect white balance for your image (the option automatically changes to 'manual'). Going back to 'white balance' just double click the preview area and compare the colors. Oh, you don't have a gray area in your image? OK, just buy a credit card size gray card and place it somewhere at the edge in your scene. You can remove it later with a retouching tool like clone or heal or whatever it's called.

Next trick: once you've scanned your image, the data will be kept in memory. That means you can modify the color, filter or resolution settings or crop as much as you want, hit the scan button again and - bingo - the image is saved with the new settings without a physical rescan! This is a real time saver.

Then there is the calibration option for any sort of film. For negatives just get an IT8 target from Wolf Faust, shoot your fist frame of each roll with it and calibrate your scanner with VueScan. Or buy an IT8 target for any slide film and calibrate your scanner. The results are stunning.

Just my two cents. I hope you don't mind my excitement...

Nicole · Nov 3, 2007

See what happens when I don't check in for a while... certainly not ignoring your informative replies, thank you very much!! I've been using the Epson V-700 with the Epson software in my office and am finally employing staff to do all my scanning in-house with training.

I've downloaded the trial version of Vuescan and am about to give it a workout. Can't for the life of me work out how to scan 8 frames at once from 120mm roll of B&W film... I must be tired!!!

I'm meeting with someone in a couple of weeks time who uses an Imacon scanner. I'm looking forward to giving that a try.

timbo10ca · Nov 4, 2007

jens g.r. benthien said:
A few things I should add to the VueScan information:

At least with my Coolscan LS 5000 and 9000 VueScan handles the dark areas a lot better than NikonScan. It exploits (correct word?) the Dmax of the scanner much better.

I considered to purchase an Imacon because of the trouble I had with Nikon scan and my slides. With VueScan now I get almost the same results as with an Imacon. When I say almost I mean that the Imacon scans are just a tad better in dark areas, but the dust and scratch removal of the Nikon is second to none.

I've just re-scanned several 35mm negatives I've shot last year. Geez, what a difference! It's a real time saver because the scans with VueScan require less post scan editing with i.e. LightZone, so the investment of some US$ 90 pays off very fast.

A very important point: you can use your serial number for an supported platform, that means with Windoze, Mac and Linux. Ever found a really professional scan software for Linux? Now you have it. It works like a charm on Linux, because Linux is far better regarding memory management.

Maybe I should add a nice trick here: select the 'color' tab, and in the preview window right click your mouse on a gray area, and you'll have a perfect white balance for your image (the option automatically changes to 'manual'). Going back to 'white balance' just double click the preview area and compare the colors. Oh, you don't have a gray area in your image? OK, just buy a credit card size gray card and place it somewhere at the edge in your scene. You can remove it later with a retouching tool like clone or heal or whatever it's called.

Next trick: once you've scanned your image, the data will be kept in memory. That means you can modify the color, filter or resolution settings or crop as much as you want, hit the scan button again and - bingo - the image is saved with the new settings without a physical rescan! This is a real time saver.

Then there is the calibration option for any sort of film. For negatives just get an IT8 target from Wolf Faust, shoot your fist frame of each roll with it and calibrate your scanner with VueScan. Or buy an IT8 target for any slide film and calibrate your scanner. The results are stunning.

Just my two cents. I hope you don't mind my excitement...

I've got a Coolscan V ED, and have never been overly happy with my results (I've been using the Nikon Scan software out of the box). The images are always very dark, and not very sharp. I never do any manipulations prior to scanning so as not to lose any info- I just do them in Photoshop. I've heard that Silverfast was the way to go (haven't tried it yet). I'm now wondering now about Vuescan, as it sounds promising and looks less expensive that what I remember Silverfast being. I'm very green at the whole computer/photo scene (I can do basic touch-ups in Photoshop, and get relatively similar prints from my printer compared to what I see on my screen). Is Vuescan pretty easy to use, and get proper focus,etc? Is there even any easy way to get proper focus using NikonScan manually, or is autofocus best?

Thanks,
Tim

Ted Harris · Nov 7, 2007

Vuescan is ok and will produce good results when used with care. However, if you want to squeeze the absolute maximum performance out of your prosumer scanner then you should give Silverfast a try. You'll want to use the Ai version, not the SE version. Free trial downloads available.

Nicole · Nov 7, 2007

Hi Ted, I'll have to book your workshop at Foto-3 2008!!! - if it doesn't clash with mine.

donbga · Nov 7, 2007

Ted Harris said:
Vuescan is ok and will produce good results when used with care. However, if you want to squeeze the absolute maximum performance out of your prosumer scanner then you should give Silverfast a try. You'll want to use the Ai version, not the SE version. Free trial downloads available.

Ted,

In what way does Silverfast out perform Vuescan? You've mentioned this a few times and I'm curious. I 've used both and other than being more user friendly I don't find that Silverfast produces a superior scan.

Don Bryant

toyotadesigner · Nov 7, 2007

In what way does Silverfast out perform Vuescan?

In no way. It doesn't even remember the marquee you've placed on your image.

Oh, stop, hold it: Silverfast definitely outperforms VueScan in price, and you have to pay for every major update. And you have to pay for a second scanner...

VueScan Pro is one licence with free updates. It can be used with any scanner you can connect to your machine (except Imacon or drum scanners).

I had Silverfast for a while but dumped it, because the color rendition was lousy, the handling a never ending hassle (on a Canon 9950F) especially with the dust & scratch removal.

With VueScan you can use IT8 targets for the calibration as well. No need for the kinky videos which IMHO add to the high price of Silverfast.

VueScan runs on Windoze, Mac and Linux/BSD. Try this with Silverfast ! ! !

I've just scanned a bunch of 6x9 'old' Velvias (50 ASA) as well as some 120 35mm Provia 100F slides from my shooting in Granada. What can I say - breathtaking. The color rendition and the gradients between colors is by far better than anyhting else I've tested myself or seen at friends set ups.

Tim,

you can drag the focus point to any part of your image and even save this setting to an *.ini file. Just one important point: your film must be cut precisely 0.5 mm before the first image you insert starts.

Everything else: just download the eveluation and spend the money for the pro version - it's worth it. Play with the settings, always click 'advanced' and numerous options will be displayed. Read the manual - it's short, written in plain language.

Just do some test scans of some of your old images and re-scan them with VueScan.

tom_micklin · Nov 7, 2007

Don Bryant said:
Ted,

In what way does Silverfast out perform Vuescan?

Don Bryant

Don,
This may be one of those things that is a matter of personal preference.
I've used both and both produce very nice scans, but I didn't like the Vue-Scan interface at all and can work much more easily with Silverfast.
Regards,
Tom

donbga · Nov 7, 2007

tom_micklin said:
Don,
This may be one of those things that is a matter of personal preference.
I've used both and both produce very nice scans, but I didn't like the Vue-Scan interface at all and can work much more easily with Silverfast.
Regards,
Tom

Tom,

I'll be the first to admit that the Silverfast interface is easier to use than Vuescan's, but that wasn't what Ted's post implied to me. Ted has has similar comments if memory serves me, here or on other forums in the past and I'm curious to find out what the difference is that he finds in the Silverfast scans. Or in other words why does Silverfast out perform Vuescan?

Don

timbo10ca · Nov 7, 2007

jens g.r. benthien said:
Tim,

you can drag the focus point to any part of your image and even save this setting to an *.ini file. Just one important point: your film must be cut precisely 0.5 mm before the first image you insert starts.

Jens:
I assume you are giving this guidance for the Vuescan, not the Nikonscan software. Do you mean cutting the film to a 0.5mm leader on a 35mm strip, before the first image? How would this make any difference to focus (which is depth related)? If it's just changing the point on the frame where focus is occuring, I don't see the point, especially considering every frame will have a different photo in it.... Also, what if I'm using a slide (which would be in a slide mount)?

Tim

sanking · Nov 7, 2007

jens g.r. benthien said:
VueScan Pro is one licence with free updates. It can be used with any scanner you can connect to your machine (except Imacon or drum scanners).

Really?

Can I run my Scitex EverSmart Pro with VueScan Pro? It is a high end flatbed, not Imacon or drum scanner.

Sandy King

toyotadesigner · Nov 8, 2007

Sandy,

never heard of a Scitex scanner. Check the VueScan list of supported scanners here or send Ed Hamrick a mail:

http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/vuescan.htm#supported

toyotadesigner · Nov 8, 2007

Tim,

trimming the leader of the film strip is - for whatever reason - important for VS to grab the film strip and first image correctly. Doesn't have to do anything with focus though.

In the center (or somewhere on the screen) you see a circular rubber band which marks the focus point. Click and drag this focus point, then perform a new focus.

With mounted slides you shouldn't have any problems. Slide them in, preview, modify focus if you need to, modify color settings, ICE, etc and scan.

Though I have the slide feeder for my little Coolscan I've never used it because the lab returns my slides in strips (archivado). The mounts / frames are not only expensive but they crop a lot of valuable space in 35mm formats.

Just download and install VueScan. It does not modify anything in your system. If you don't like it, simply deleted the VueScan folder, that's it. No hooks in the registry, just one clean, small and nice piece of software.

Scanning for top quality, speed and efficiency

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