Scaninng 35mm film with autobellows and a enlarging lens

[João Paulo F Q]

Hi!

I just recieved an novoflex autobellows that came with a vivitar vhe 50mm enlarging lens that I intend to use for film scanning, since am using a canon 60d I already new that it might not work with the specific lens. But since the adapter I am using for the camera on the bellows don't allow to focus on infinity or just really short range focusing I am wondering ig it might play a role here. In the end I just would like to know in your opinion if it's worth geting a 75mm enlarging lens or it is better just to return everything and use the 60d on a tripod with my leica elmarit R 60mm macro on it (with wich I can´t fill the hole sensor with the negative).

 

[MattKing]

I believe you need a shorter focal length lens, not a longer lens.

 

[bdial]

I have experimented with an 80mm enlarging lens and a bellows for digitizing 35mm, with promising results. I didn’t have any problem filling the frame of a full-frame digi.

 

[MattKing]

For clarity, the crop factor sensor is what demands the shorter focal length lens.

 

[markjwyatt]

I use a Durst slide copier with bellows and a Fujifilm XT-2 (APS-C). For a 35mm camera, a 50mm lens would likely work for 35mm slides. I use a 75mm enlarging lens and am able to digitize 35mm and 6x6 negs (barely) with it. For 6x6 a 90mm might be a little better but the 75mm works. A 50mm lens focuses too close and does not work.

 

[João Paulo F Q]

I believe you need a shorter focal length lens, not a longer lens.

Yes, if I get a regular lens what is also a possibility, but for a enlarging lens would need a 75mm to 85mm, just not shure if it is worth it the effort

 

[João Paulo F Q]

I use a Durst slide copier with bellows and a Fujifilm XT-2 (APS-C). For a 35mm camera, a 50mm lens would likely work for 35mm slides. I use a 75mm enlarging lens and am able to digitize 35mm and 6x6 negs (barely) with it. For 6x6 a 90mm might be a little better but the 75mm works. A 50mm lens focuses too close and does not work.

It is more or less the same set-up as mine, is your 50mm lens a regular one or a enlarger lens? If it is a enlarger lens then it should also work for me...

 

[MattKing]

The focal length issue is the same for regular lenses and enlarging lenses.
The issue relates to the nature of your slide copier. My Olympus slide copier accessory needs a shorter lens, because the slide holding part can't be moved far enough away from the lens to give full frame coverage of a 35mm slide on to a smaller sensor when using a 50mm lens - enlarging or macro. In my case - M 4/3 - I need a 25mm macro or enlarging lens.

 

[markjwyatt]

With na 50mm lens (enlarging) I focus too close and cannot acapture a full 35mm negative (nor 6x6) on APS-C. When I use the 75mm enlarging lens, I move farther away and can focus, and capture the full 35mm negative. For 6x6, I am near the top of the cameras vertical travel, and the bellows is almost comletely closed, and thus barely works.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hi!

I just received a novoflex autobellows that came with a vivitar vhe 50mm enlarging lens that I intend to use for film scanning, since am using a canon 60d I already new that it might not work with the specific lens. But since the adapter I am using for the camera on the bellows don't allow to focus on infinity or just really short range focusing I am wondering if it might play a role here. In the end I just would like to know in your opinion if it's worth getting a 75mm enlarging lens or it is better just to return everything and use the 60d on a tripod with my leica elmarit R 60mm macro on it (with which I can´t fill the hole sensor with the negative).

If one wants to end up with a digital image, one should start a digital camera; if one starts with an analog camera and film, the output should remain analog as well.

 

[Les Sarile]

If one wants to end up with a digital image, one should start a digital camera; if one starts with an analog camera and film, the output should remain analog as well.

Of course one should do whatever one feels like. Afterall, it's your own time and money . . .

Recently had this question posed to me as well, if I am scanning film, why not just go straight to a digial camera? My quick response is that film has very different characteristics then digital like for instance latitude. Notice that film overexposed by 10 stops is actually still very usable specially compared to any dig even shot in RAW that is not even at +3 on.

Kodak Portra 400 overexposure by Les DMess, on Flickr

Taking advantage of this characteristic, I purposely overexposed this shot on Fuji 100 that the camera recommended a shutter speed of 1/60 but I needed at least a two second long exposure in order to get the silky water effect during daylight hours . . .

Fuji 100-26-26B by Les DMess, on Flickr

Another is that with the film camera - like the Pentax LX, I can take an aperture priority autoexposures for as long as it takes - literally . . .

This one on Kodak Ektar 100 that was about 45 minutes.

Untitled by Les DMess, on Flickr

These are just a couple of very specific situations that a digi would not have worked so taking the shot on film and scanning was most appropriate. Of course all that we ask from the digitization process is an honest interpretation of the color negative.

To the OP, I am not familiar with your autobellows but if it is anything like the ones I have, then a 50mm won't work with a none full frame digi. I found if I used any of mine to digitize a frame of 35mm, a focal length in 70mm range will be needed. I verified this to be the case on all mine . . .

Bellows B by Les DMess, on Flickr

 

[Dan Fromm]

Ralphie, I digitize my old slides so that I can use the images in ppt presentations and in publications. Re-shooting the subjects with digital is impossible. Really!

OP, you want to fill an APS-C sensor with the image of a 35 mm negative or slide. Required magnification is ~ 0.62 = 1.6:1. Doing this requires a lens' diaphragm-to-chip distance of ~ 1.6 * focal length and a diaphragm-to-negative/slide distance of ~ 2.67 * focal length.

I don't know your bellows minimum extension, including bellows-to-camera adapter. Your camera's flange to film distance is 18 mm. I don't know how you're going to hold the negative or slide in front of the lens.

Do the arithmetic and you'll what will work for you.

 

[MattKing]

Ralphie, I digitize my old slides so that I can use the images in ppt presentations and in publications. Re-shooting the subjects with digital is impossible. Really!

OP, you want to fill an APS-C sensor with the image of a 35 mm negative or slide. Required magnification is ~ 0.62 = 1.6:1. Doing this requires a lens' diaphragm-to-chip distance of ~ 1.6 * focal length and a diaphragm-to-negative/slide distance of ~ 2.67 * focal length.

I don't know your bellows minimum extension, including bellows-to-camera adapter. Your camera's flange to film distance is 18 mm. I don't know how you're going to hold the negative or slide in front of the lens.

Do the arithmetic and you'll what will work for you.

Thanks Dan for the numbers - they are really helpful.

 

[reddesert]

The focal length issue is the same for regular lenses and enlarging lenses.
The issue relates to the nature of your slide copier. My Olympus slide copier accessory needs a shorter lens, because the slide holding part can't be moved far enough away from the lens to give full frame coverage of a 35mm slide on to a smaller sensor when using a 50mm lens - enlarging or macro. In my case - M 4/3 - I need a 25mm macro or enlarging lens.

The problem is also the back focus of the 50 mm enlarging lens, which is pretty short, and the OP has a bellows plus an adapter which means the minimum extension is pretty long - that's why he can't get anywhere near infinity focus, and probably not 1.6:1. If the OP puts an even shorter lens on this system he will only be able to take pictures of ants.

Solving this problem requires finding a lens and copier setup that satisfies both the lens-camera and lens-subject distances as Dan outlined.