Saw a HUGE lens. 360mm f/5.6 Symmar

[snaggs]

I'm not sure I understand why LF lens elements are so huge. This lens and shutter was about the size of a small plate.

I was thinking of ordering a 400mm f/5.6 Tele-Xenar from Badger.. will that be even bigger than the Symmar?

Daniel.

 

[Ian Grant]

If you go to the Schneider website you can download the specifications for the Tele-Xenar.

The 360mm Symmar is designed for ULF and a very large circle of coverage, it is big and heavy. The Tele-Xenon is designed for 5x4 and is smaller and lighter, you'll need to look both up to find the differance.

Ian

 

[noseoil]

The 300mm symmar-s I found for 8x10 is a wonderful lens, but... At the time I was looking for coverage and speed, both of which are more than ample. The image circle needed for 8x10 is about 330mm, the symmar has 425mm. At f5.6 it is a pleasure to focus and easy to work with. The images it is capable of are pretty amazing, due to coatings and a good lens shade.

Now for the down side, it weighs quite a bit with the copal 3 shutter and filters need to be 105mm. Not a back-packing lens by any means, and take a look at the price of a 105mm polarizer some time if you want a shock! If I had known the down side, I would have found a smaller, cheaper, lighter lens to use. Since the kit I have for the old 8x10 B&J is in a trunk, I don't worry about the weight (as much), but there are other options out there for a 300mm lens with good coverage. I did find some surplus WWII filters used for air recon which were cheap and of good quality, so I'm ok for B&W film. tim

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The 400mm Tele-Xenar is a telephoto design meant mainly as a long lens for 4x5". The 360mm Symmar is designed to cover 8x10" with good corner-to-corner sharpness and room for movements on that format, so it needs to be larger.

 

[snaggs]

David, thanks for answering so many of my questions!

 

[Ole]

The 360mm Symmar was actually made for 24x30cm, or 9.5x12". The coverage is sufficient for the next plate size, which was 30x40cm (12x16")!

The shutter is a Compound #5, which was the largest regular shutter made. Yes, it's huge.

But it's still a lightweight compared to my 500mm f:5.5 Schneider Aerotar...

 

[clogz]

Ole,
You'd better show us a picture of that lens or else people won't believe you!

 

[argus]

It is huge indeed. 80mm opening needed in the lensboard and the front standard must bear the 1860 grams of the lens and shutter. You'd better have a 6" square lensboard to fit it.

The 360mm Symmar is designed to cover 8x10" with good corner-to-corner sharpness and room for movements on that format, so it needs to be larger

That's what it does on 8x10" but on the 7x17 it tends to go a bit soft in the corners at f22.

I even have a bigger one, but it is lighter: the 360mm f4,5 Zeiss Tessar. There's one for sale right now on ebay for a BIN of over 4 times what I payed mine
For comparison, here she is with on her right hand side, the tiny G Claron 150mm f9

Dead Link Removed



G

 

[sanking]

The 360mm Symmar was actually made for 24x30cm, or 9.5x12". The coverage is sufficient for the next plate size, which was 30x40cm (12x16")!

The shutter is a Compound #5, which was the largest regular shutter made. Yes, it's huge.

But it's still a lightweight compared to my 500mm f:5.5 Schneider Aerotar...

Stopped down to f/45 the 360 mm Symmar (convertible) will cover 12X20" with a bit of change. Coverage is almost identical to the 355mm G-Claron.


Sandy

 

[Sparky]

Are you certain that you're not thinking of the 360mm/6.8 Symmar? As far as I know - a 5.6 has NEVER been made. 300mm is as far as the 5.6 Symmars go in terms of focal length. You simply cannot fit it into a Copal 3. Okay - maybe it's an anal point...

 

[Ole]

You simply cannot fit it into a Copal 3.

Exactly. But it fits in a Compound 5 - just like the 300mm f:4.5 Xenar.

 

[sanking]

Are you certain that you're not thinking of the 360mm/6.8 Symmar? As far as I know - a 5.6 has NEVER been made. 300mm is as far as the 5.6 Symmars go in terms of focal length. You simply cannot fit it into a Copal 3. Okay - maybe it's an anal point...

The old convertible Symmar 360mm was available as an f/5.6 lens, in Compound #5 shutter, as Ole notes.

I owned and used one for several years on the 12X20" format. The large aperture made focusing very easy for this format. Performance was also outstanding for contact printing. My only complaint was that the lens took such large filters.

This lens is Compound is not at all rare. You see them quite often on ebay.

Sandy King

 

[Sparky]

hmmm... wow. What do you know? I'm PRETTY sure I've even seen 360/6.8 convertibles... but who knows... that would have been 20-25 years ago...! ack.

 

[Ole]

That could be correct - I believe the Compound shutters went out of production before the convertibles did. Since the full f:5.6 needs the huge Compound 5 shutter (or a Compur Electric #5), they might have made a f:6.8 version for smaller shutters (like copal #3).

 

[sanking]

That could be correct - I believe the Compound shutters went out of production before the convertibles did. Since the full f:5.6 needs the huge Compound 5 shutter (or a Compur Electric #5), they might have made a f:6.8 version for smaller shutters (like copal #3).

I have seen the 360mm convertible Symmar with a maximum aperture of f/6.8 in a Compur I believe. I assumed it was the same lens, but with some loss of aperture due to the smaller diameter of the Compur than that of the Compound.

Sandy King

 

[cperez]

Indeed. I have both the 360 Symmar Convert f/5.6 in #5 Compound and a 300 Xenar f/4.5 also in #5 Compound. The threads are not the same, so the elements are not interchangeable between the shutters.

HOWEVER, both optics are incredible, even wide open. The aperture is very round in these shutters and it helps render the out of focus areas in ways that many people find to be very pleasing and very "classic". Oh, and both are very contrasty, which is someone unexpected when reading literature that touts multi-coated optics.

There are f/6.8 360 Converts in #3 Copal shutters. Same optics, different shutter. But frankly, I prefer the air shuttered #5 Compound for the full f/5.6 aperture.

The old convertible Symmar 360mm was available as an f/5.6 lens, in Compound #5 shutter, as Ole notes.

I owned and used one for several years on the 12X20" format. The large aperture made focusing very easy for this format. Performance was also outstanding for contact printing. My only complaint was that the lens took such large filters.

This lens is Compound is not at all rare. You see them quite often on ebay.

Sandy King