Satin screen or Fresnel for Shen-Hao 45

Alexz · Oct 7, 2005

It seems I've finally put together a necessary amount of cash to invest into my first field 4x5, which apparently is going to be Shen Hao.
I've heard enough compliants about their genuine GG which is quite dim and many user seem to like Satin Snow screens instead. However Badger offers Shen-Hao 45 bundled with Fresnel screen for an additional 120-130$ on top of camera's own price.
The question is whether Satin Snow is vast enouigh improvement over original GG to allow convenient focusing and composing bearing in mind that I like to shoot night and twiling cityscapes, dimly lit scenes and similar.
My current and the only lens is 150/5.6 (Fujinon), but I plan on 90mm/6.8 (or similar wider then f/8) as well.
So the question is whether investing another 120-130$ for Fresnel is a worthy consideration or probably Satin Snow provides adequate improvement in screen brightness ?

Also, I understand Fresnel shall be installed on top of original GG, which may mean shifting focusing plane (i.e. focusing onto Fresnel will cause the actual image to be out of the focus plane since it is at GG plane). Is this the real situation ?

Thanks in advance, Alex

Daniel Grenier · Oct 7, 2005

I had a fresnel on my 8x10 when I ordered a Satin Snow GG. When I got it, I removed the fresnel as I really didn't need it anymore the Satin Snow did such a fine job. Some of my lenses are f9s and it is plenty bright in there with the S.S. GG. I also have one on my 7x17 and the last thing I need on it is a Fresnel. I don't think you need one - especially with 5.6 lenses.

My 2 cents.

wildbill · Oct 7, 2005

I'd order a satin snow now because you've got a wait ahead of you. Get the camera. If you only have a 150mm 5.6 you'll be fine for now. I added a $7 "fresnel" focusing magnifier from an office supply store to my shenhao gg and it helps a bunch with my 90mm 6.8. I'll hopefully remove it when my satinsnow arrives. You may not like all the concentric circles of a fresnel anyway. Added note; Satinsnow gg's come w/o a grid or markings so you won't have more crap to look at and you can add your own markings using a fine point vis-a-vis marker or similar if you'd like.

Flotsam · Oct 7, 2005

I like to be able to critically focus using a loupe so my choice would be the Satin Snow. Also considering the huge price difference, you would have to have a distinct preference for using a fresnel to go in that direction.

Nick Zentena · Oct 7, 2005

Assuming the current Shen Hao is no different to the one that came with my camera I'd suggest getting the Satin. With the old glass even a 300mm F/5.6 lens was dark. With the Satinsnow the 150mm F/9 G-Claron is fine. I think the ground glass on my Anscos are brighter but I think the Satinsnow glass is easier to focus [see clearly] with. Don't ask me to explain it's just the way it seems.

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 7, 2005

I bought my Shen Hao with the optional Fresnel. I didn't like the Fresnel and replaced it with a Satinsnow GG. I'm very happy with the Satinsnow on the Shen Hao.

Bob F. · Oct 7, 2005

Seems to be some misunderstanding about what a fresnel lens does. It does not make the image brighter. By refracting the light towards the edges of the screen so that they come out more perpendicular to the glass it reduces the "hot-spot" effect most noticeable with wider angle lenses. A better quality screen such as Satinsnow will give a brighter overall image but you will still get light falloff towards the edges. Given the cost of the Satinsnow glass, I don't see it as an either/or situation: get a Satinsnow screen and then decide if you want the fresnel too.

If you are shooting in low-light, you will want the brightest screen available and that is probably the Satinsnow. You may find the ridges of the fresnel get in the way - mine seem to get more pronounced in low-light situations.

[edit] Just remembered the last part... The fresnel normally goes between the ground glass and your eye. You still focus on the ground glass so there is no focus shift. On some cameras, the fresnel goes on the lens side of the GG in which case it does need shimming.

Cheers, Bob.

User Removed · Oct 7, 2005

Save the few hundred dollars, upgrade your GG to a Satin Snow, and purchase yourself a good darkcloth. You will be happy.

Ryan McIntosh

papagene · Oct 8, 2005

Hands down... a SatinSnow.

gene

BradS · Oct 8, 2005

ah...uhm...I thought that Dave was now supplying the ground glass for at least some of the new Shen cameras. You might want to see what it comes with.

But, certainly....if it is not a SatinSnow, by all means get one! They really are that good.

Mongo · Oct 8, 2005

For a 135mm lens (at the time I didn't have a 150 yet), the old original Shen-Hao GG worked fine. However, focusing my 90/6.8 on it was a pain. I upgraded to the SatinSnow (I still can't believe how inexpensive the glass is!) and everything was significantly brighter.

I got a cheap ($2) "page magnifier" at a discount store and cut it out to fit over the SatinSnow GG. It's useful for composition when using a wide angle lens. It makes it much easier to see the whole image on the GG. However, for focusing I remove the fresnel and use the SatinSnow glass. It's very easy to focus on this glass...it's the best inexpensive upgrade for any LF camera.

As Brad mentioned, I believe that Dave is now providing SatinSnow GG for the Shen-Hao cameras. But even if your camera has the old GG, you'll be fine with the 150mm lens for a while. The original glass wasn't that bad.

I'd wait to see how the glass in the camera works, and invest a couple of bucks into a cheap fresnel lens that you can put over the GG when composing. But take it off for focusing...focusing with a fresnel in place is a pain, and it serves no purpose to leave the fresnel in place when you're focusing.

Best of luck to you.
Dave

vet173 · Oct 8, 2005

Another happy SatinSnow user here. There is a reason there is a backorder. Get in line NOW. I am like Dave, I have a fresnel for composition but don't like the lines for critical focus.
John

Alexz · Oct 8, 2005

Thanks guys, point taken.

Dave Parker · Oct 8, 2005

Mongo said:
As Brad mentioned, I believe that Dave is now providing SatinSnow GG for the Shen-Hao cameras. But even if your camera has the old GG, you'll be fine with the 150mm lens for a while. The original glass wasn't that bad.

Dave

I have sold mulitiples of screens in China, I don't knowingly supply their screens, but suspect that some of our screens may have ended up in the shen cameras, I have had a couple of people tell me the screen in their shen, is esentually the same as the replacement they bought from us, with the amount of screens we sold to China, it is entirely possible.

As has been suggested Alex, first see how the screen that you get in your camera works for you, the fresnel option seems to be quite expensive, and there other options available that can do just as good of job.

If I can ever help, please let us know, and thanks to all for the thumbs up..

Good Shooting.

Dave Parker
Satin Snow Ground Glass

Alexz · Oct 8, 2005

Additional question:
ordering page of Satin Snow offers several options for the screen: with or without clipped corners and various sizes of clipping corners.
Since I'm ne to LF, I'll be grateful for an explanation what does that mean exactly, whether I need it for Shen-Hao 4x5 and if yes, what sizes are required.

Thanks in advance, Alex

Dave Parker · Oct 8, 2005

Alexz said:
Additional question:
ordering page of Satin Snow offers several options for the screen: with or without clipped corners and various sizes of clipping corners.
Since I'm ne to LF, I'll be grateful for an explanation what does that mean exactly, whether I need it for Shen-Hao 4x5 and if yes, what sizes are required.

Thanks in advance, Alex

Hi Alex,

The standard for the Shen Hao is a 3/8" clip, this is just about the same that comes with the factory screen. What it means, is the screen has a 45 degree angled clip in which the corner is removed, couple of reasons for it is to check for vigenetting with some of the older lenses also allow air to escape from the bellows when folding the camera up, as well as allowing the glass to actually fit the back properly, I have done a few screens without the clip for the Shen's, so either way, we can help you out.

Thanks, and welcome to the LF game, I am sure you are going to have fun, if you decide to order, you will have the distinction of being our first customer in the Middle East.

Dave

Alexz · Oct 8, 2005

Thank you Dave and my appreciation for your prompt and kind response (also for your fast email response).
I think I'll indeed go on and order the screen because I'm pretty much set for Shen-Hao already and heard about a considerable backlog of your screen orders so lacing an order for your screen even prior to ordering the camera will save me some time once the camera will arrive.
I think I'll go with standard option for Shen-Hao, i.e. clipped corners of 3/8" and will mention it in my order.
I'll be happy to be valued and your first customer from Middle East, perhaps it will open up a new marketing opportunities in my area for your products

I'll reply to your email asking for more ordering details to complete the order.

Regards, Alex

sanking · Oct 8, 2005

Bob F. said:
Seems to be some misunderstanding about what a fresnel lens does. It does not make the image brighter. By refracting the light towards the edges of the screen so that they come out more perpendicular to the glass it reduces the "hot-spot" effect most noticeable with wider angle lenses. A better quality screen such as Satinsnow will give a brighter overall image but you will still get light falloff towards the edges. Given the cost of the Satinsnow glass, I don't see it as an either/or situation: get a Satinsnow screen and then decide if you want the fresnel too.

If you are shooting in low-light, you will want the brightest screen available and that is probably the Satinsnow. You may find the ridges of the fresnel get in the way - mine seem to get more pronounced in low-light situations.

[edit] Just remembered the last part... The fresnel normally goes between the ground glass and your eye. You still focus on the ground glass so there is no focus shift. On some cameras, the fresnel goes on the lens side of the GG in which case it does need shimming.

Cheers, Bob.

I agree completely with Bob. The major attribute of a fresnel is that it evens out the light over all of the screen and reduces the hot spot effect. No ground glass, no matter how bright it is, can do this. But it is not an either/or proposition, because a fresnel in conjunction with a good, bright ground glass is much better than a fresnel used with a dark ground glass.

BTW, for a really maximum brightness screen you might consider a piece of framing glass of the anti-glare type that has a UV filter. A friend swears by this material for work in really low-lighting conditions.

Sandy

Peter De Smidt · Oct 8, 2005

sanking said:
BTW, for a really maximum brightness screen you might consider a piece of framing glass of the anti-glare type that has a UV filter. A friend swears by this material for work in really low-lighting conditions.

Sandy

I've tried this. It gives a terrifically bright hot spot. A Fresnel helps even out the light a lot. This setup is too extreme for regular shooting, but for use at night it could be just the ticket, plus it's cheap to try.

jovo · Oct 8, 2005

It's almost laughable that for the price of just one fresnel or some other
'bright" screen you could buy 10 to 12 of Dave's, use half as frisbees, and still have a lifetime supply of really excellent ground glass. I don't know how he does it on price, but it's the best bargain in photography!! Even if you buy the fresnel, get a satinsnow as a back-up...you simply can not go wrong here!!

Satin screen or Fresnel for Shen-Hao 45

Alexz

Daniel Grenier

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Nick Zentena

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Bob F.

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vet173

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Satin screen or Fresnel for Shen-Hao 45

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