Same enlarger lens brand?

Is there a significantly visible difference between brands of lenses; specifically Nikon El-Nikkor, Rodenstock Rodagon, and Schneider Componon-S ?
I'm trying to determine if I should keep all the lenses from the same family, or if I can mix them based on what I find and can afford.

thanks

Each brand looks different from the other. I have about 35 enlarging lenses for 35mm format--they all have their charms!!

The short answer is: no

One you get past a certain quality factor, the most important thing is the lens' magnification range.

Ergonomics might be a minor factor - lenses from the same house/vintage have similar build and feel. However if you are moving around a lot in formats, having a distinct lens in each focal length might be an advantage. I use a 50mm EL Nikkor for my rare 35mm, a 75mm Hoya for up to 6x6, a 105mm Componon for 6x9, and a 135mm Componon for 5x4 and panoramas.

Optically they all easily meet the quality of the rest of my system. I'd aim for something rated to at least 8x magnification for the format.

Thanks guys. Now I don't have to worry about getting an entire matched set of lenses.

I've been doing my own printing (b&w) for 50 yrs, and I can easily tell the difference between a Componon, Rodagon, El-Nikkor, Leitz, or whatever print. If you guys can't see any difference, you lack experience, or are looking at prints in the wrong light (I use a flour. shoplight). Or you can't see real close?

chip j said:

I've been doing my own printing (b&w) for 50 yrs, and I can easily tell the difference between a Componon, Rodagon, El-Nikkor, Leitz, or whatever print. If you guys can't see any difference, you lack experience, or are looking at prints in the wrong light (I use a flour. shoplight). Or you can't see real close?

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Really? I am deeply impressed.

I used to have a Nikon EL 50/2.8 but when the chance of a Rodagon 50/2.8 APO came along at a decent price I snapped it up. I compared them side by side with a colour negative image and there was not a lot of difference , but the Nikkor had to be stopped down to 5.6 before it gave overall sharpness. The beauty of the Rodagon came in through the almost complete absence of colour fringing when Printing colour negatives. I now also have a Durst Neonon which I picked up for very little money and it is just about the same as the Nikon was, resolution wise. For someone who does nothing else but print B&W the Durst is a fine lens up there with the best. (and cheaper than a Nikon)

ac12 said:

Is there a significantly visible difference between brands of lenses; specifically Nikon El-Nikkor, Rodenstock Rodagon, and Schneider Componon-S ?
I'm trying to determine if I should keep all the lenses from the same family, or if I can mix them based on what I find and can afford.

thanks

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You can mix and match to taste and budget without anybody ever seeing a difference. Get what you like and can afford.Keeping your printing technique consistent is more important than any equipment.For example:always using f/stop printing gives me consistent and predictable results.

On this subject, I do think the one overriding quality in film photography is how one is able to convey the film's grain onto the paper. In that respect is there any benefit to be expected from a Apo lens when used in black and white printing?

ac12 said:

Is there a significantly visible difference between brands of lenses; specifically Nikon El-Nikkor, Rodenstock Rodagon, and Schneider Componon-S ?
I'm trying to determine if I should keep all the lenses from the same family, or if I can mix them based on what I find and can afford.

thanks

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I think cost is a less of a concern since you can get them on eBay for a fraction of what they originally sold for. You can get a 50mm El Nikor for as little as $20. I wouldn't think of buying one new. There's a glut of used ones.

Within any of these given brands there can be more than one price option per certain popular focal lengths. Rodenstock, for example, offered an
inexpensive student-grade lens (Gerogon?), the pro-grade Rodagon series, and then the even better Apo Rodagon N series. And yes, moving up the
price ladder will make a visible difference in the print, provided you print precisely to begin with, which would mean everything leveled and use of
a glass neg carrier. But if you are just starting out and doing only black and white printing, I wouldn't worry too much about this. Nikon, Fuji, Schneider, and Rodenstock have all made excellent enlarging lenses, and there are plenty of bargains out there at the moment.

naaldvoerder said:

On this subject, I do think the one overriding quality in film photography is how one is able to convey the film's grain onto the paper. In that respect is there any benefit to be expected from a Apo lens when used in black and white printing?

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I have an 135mm APO I use for 4X5, and have a couple of non APO inclining a Wollensake, in B&W I don't see a difference at least up to 11X14. I hope to print color over the summer, I hope the APS will shine.

ac12 said:

Thanks guys. Now I don't have to worry about getting an entire matched set of lenses.

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certainly not

There are not technical differences so much, but rather differences of "character", "personality", & "world-view".

Depends on what you are trying to achieve. I keep around a lot of different enlarging lenses because I print both color and black and white, and shoot
various formats all the way from 35mm to 8x10. Various apo lenses are indeed useful for ultimate crispness and textural contrast. But sometimes I
prefer something more moderate to fine tune overall contrast when printing color. Then among those, a certain brand might excel in a particular
focal length. Just depends on the exact look I am after at a particular degree of enlargement. But this is all related to quite a bit of experience. I know what I am after. When somebody starts out, just buy something relatively modern from one of the more reputable manufacturers, and ask around which versions are best.

As inexpensive as they are these days I would do as I did. Buy a bunch in various brands and focal lengths, including multiples of the same model, test them (see Ctein) and keep the very best and pass the others on.

naaldvoerder said:

On this subject, I do think the one overriding quality in film photography is how one is able to convey the film's grain onto the paper. In that respect is there any benefit to be expected from a Apo lens when used in black and white printing?

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I would hazard a guess and say probably not. However the bulb or other light source in the enlarger has a 'colour' which can show up as fringing on the edges of high contrast subjects. But for all practical purposes it probably doesn't matter. But as I have an APO lens as well as a 'normal' lens I can choose which one I want to use

chip j said:

There are not technical differences so much, but rather differences of "character", "personality", & "world-view".

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"world-view"... I guess I have to add that term to my photo-encyclopediae.

Modern apo enlarging lenses still don't go cheap. The people who want them know what they can do and will pay accordingly. Once you get into something as big as 5x7 or 8x10 film, you can substitute apo graphics lenses, which tend to be superior optically to ordinary enlarging lenses, but have smaller maximum apertures (typically f/9). But in shorter focal lengths you're going to pay dearly. Over the years there have been some cheap stat camera lenses rebranded as economy "apo" enlarging lenses, but these aren't the same thing, so don't get fooled by mere marketing jargon. All
the serious lenses were relatively expensive at one point in time, and some still are. If you want the Rolls Royce, choose from the Apo El Nikkor lens series, expect to pay thousands if you can even still find one. But the average amateur enlarger won't even hold a lens this heavy without deflecting
something, so you'd be wasting your time even if you are rich. Of course, you can always buy an expensive enlarger to match it. Or do like I did,
pick one up for free, and then need to knock out a few walls to install the monster, if you have a high enough ceiling to begin with. Heck, it beats
working on greasy old cars! But in terms of general-usage enlarging lenses, they're going at such a bargain right now that you can buy more than
one if needed, and keep the one you like best. For example, I sometimes use an 80/4 El Nikkor (non-apo), which cost next to nothing and is a wretched choice for the medium format negs it was marketed for, but using only the center of the lens works very nicely for 35mm film. (The better El Nikkor for med format is the f/5.6 version, though I personally use a 105 Apo Rodagon, and yes, anybody with a decent set of eyes can detect some kind of extra something from this that isn't present in a print made with an ordinary enlarging lens).

AgX said:

"world-view"... I guess I have to add that term to my photo-encyclopediae.

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Do you view the world as a rich bastard, or a devout Christian, or Buddhist? Hint: Nikon is the Buddhist. The rich bastard starts w/a "L". And I DO have the two finest enlargers ever made for 35mm!

That sounds self-incriminating. But the best enlarger ever made for 35mm happens to also be the best ever made for 5x7 on down. And it doesn't
start with an "L". Only rich B's think that way. If you're taller than the enlarger itself, you have yet to meet an adult enlarger.

Yes with the price of lenses where they are now, I had been "collecting" lenses.
My Durst L-1000 has 2 El-Nikkors (50/2.8+80/5.6) and 2 Componon-S (100+150) lenses, hence my question about mixing lens brands.
In the past, all I've used was a 50/2.8 El-Nikkor (35mm film), so I never had to deal with multiple lenses. Now I'm setting up for multiple formats.
I just have to get working on the darkroom construction, so that I can use the enlarger.