Sally Mann's exhibition in Helsinki under police investigation

[Videbaek]

A Sally Mann exhibition is running at Helsinki's "Tennis Palace" and attracting controversy. Heard on the radio that a "group of seven people" have asked the police to investigate whether certain of the pictures are "hurtful to humanity" (a rough translation of the Finnish). I've been to see the show, which comprises some of the older pictures of her children including all the most famous ones, a series of large wet-plate landscapes, a series of large close-up portraits of a daughter, and a series of wet-plate studies of murder victims.
What did I think... Well, the pictures of her children certainly do not constitute child pornography, not in this universe or any number of alternate ones. A couple of these pictures are exceptional, very beautiful. I was disappointed in the print-making, which was heavy-handed. Much isolating of the central figure and heavy, heavy, heavy burning down of all surroundings.
Of the landscapes, one was exceptional to my mind. Useless to try to describe it. The rest were not particularly interesting, southern gothic sounding a monotonous note.
The series of large, close-up pictures of her daughter -- perhaps 10 in all, wet-plate, rough application of emulsion, there was graphical interest yes, relying on the spontaneousness of the medium used rough. Not much progression from picture to picture. Maybe would repay longer contemplation.
Turning to the hurting of humanity, the picture of a dead obese woman, naked, lying face down, her corpse decaying, the flesh falling away, who has been brutally tortured as evidenced by wires around her wrists having visibly dug into the flesh splayed open and pulpy, her body dumped in a forest clearing, decaying leaves piled up against her rancid buttocks, the large format camera placed close, the angle of view slightly downwards, the wet plate emulsified on the spot presumably amidst the buzzing of flies and the stench of death.
I felt a pang of embarrassment for the photographer, who obviously does not understand. But I inspected the pictures, which are very well done technically, and strode out of the room washing myself mentally as I went. The pictures are not hurtful to humanity, they are merely beneath contempt. Just another iteration of the bile spewing across the nation's television screens, iPods and computer monitors. If the Helsinki police condemn these pictures, they must condemn much else as well.

 

[pentaxuser]

I am always curious and suspicious how a photographer other than a scenes of crime police photographer ever comes across such bodies? Did she just stumble upon it? Did someone else find it and his/her first thought is:" I must call photographer X before I report my finding to anyone else?"

Does the picture carry a history of its capture and the purpose of its taking. If so I'd like to hear it. I am sure I lead a very sheltered life compared to Sally Mann and no doubt most other professional photographers but I could live to be 150 and I am sure I'd never come across a dead body in a forest and certainly not in this state. If I did I hope my first instinct wouldn't be to photograph it.

If the police were to hold an exhibition of all the factory and road accident deaths in the U.K. it would be rightly condemned for its tastelessness to say the least and possible its offence to humanity. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a country where the police wanted to exhibit such pictures. I understand the need for photojournalism to bring home to people instances of inhumanity as part of an accompanying campaign but this is completely different to the purpose behind the exhibition above.

In this world life is still cheaper than it deserves to be and the human race has a worrying talent for cheapening it.

pentaxuser

 

[David William White]

cool

 

[Monophoto]

Many years ago, in the early days of the Internet, there were a few services who would forward messages while disguising the originator. These so-called "anonymous" forwarders served mainly to facillitate the uncontrolled spread of pornography.

And where was the most famous of these servers located? Yup, Finland.

Go figure.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

I am always curious and suspicious how a photographer other than a scenes of crime police photographer ever comes across such bodies? Did she just stumble upon it? Did someone else find it and his/her first thought is:" I must call photographer X before I report my finding to anyone else?"


pentaxuser

Pentaxuser,

It's been a long time since I saw the prints in question, but I do remember that in her book, SM states that the images were shot at a body farm with full permission. Info on body farms here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Farm

I definitely don't care to look at the dead people images myself and didn't feel they were particular well shot or printed, but there's nothing terribly sinister about how they were made.

- CJ

 

[abeku]

Sally Mann's exhibition in Stockholm was also discussed in terms of child pornography when it arrived but in the end it turned out to be one of the most popular exhibits of the year and the criticism faded away in favor for the quality of the artist's work.
Regarding her work on dead bodies, she had access to a "body farm" for forensic studies where the various stages of decay was studied. There's a recent TV documentary about Mann where one can follow her photographic journey from the family pictures to the body farm work.
BTW, I really enjoyed her exhibition!

 

[Lee Shively]

Some of the forensics laboratory "body farm" photos were included in her exhibition and book "What Remains". In the context of that project they were effective and not at all like the "bile" described. They probably present a different tone when viewed as part of a general exhibit so I can understand the reaction to a certain extent. "What Remains" dealt with death and literally what is left behind after death, culminating with the photos of her children--her legacy after she is gone.

Her landscapes transcend the standard concepts with the use of wet plates, uneven emulsion applications and widely varying exposures. I like them. I've said before you may have to be Southern to get the emotions that come across in her landscapes. Without that feeling, they might appear to be just poorly executed experiments.

 

[Petri]

These so-called "anonymous" forwarders served mainly to facillitate the uncontrolled spread of pornography.
And where was the most famous of these servers located? Yup, Finland.

Go figure.

I wonder if this really is true. How do you know about it?:rolleyes:

Well, about the exhibition. I guess I have to see it after it has been advertised with this day's news. And it is not really under Police investigation; a group of people has only asked the police to take a look at the matters. The police decides then whether if will need any actions.

That reminds me, that I ought to see the exhibition.

 

[clay]

The 'body farm' pictures were taken at the FBI forensics farm that plants donated and unclaimed bodies outdoors so their scientists can observe exactly how bodies decay over time. The information gained is valuable for investigating crime scenes. It allows the investigators to make informed guesses as to time of death, place of death etc.... The 'farm' is in Virginia, which is also where Sally Mann lives. She had permission from the FBI for her access, obviously.

The book 'What Remains' is a very hard book to peruse, precisely because it is taking an unblinking look at a subject we'd rather not think about on any deep level: mortality and death and its somewhat democratic application to the entire human population. And the point I believe that she is making is that the objects in the photos do not represent the human beings - but rather the meat locker that contained the 'real person' and the personality and humanity that is no longer there. Anyway, that is my take on it.

I agree with the poster that this stuff is weird to look at. It is uncomfortable and scary. But no one is making you look at it either. If you don't like it, then turning on your heels and walking away is totally permitted.

 

[jslabovitz]

The Finland anonymizer did exist

I wonder if this really is true. How do you know about it?:rolleyes:

Actually, it is true, at least the bit about Finland being the site of a popular "anonymizer" server:

The Penet remailer (anon.penet.fi) was a pseudonymous remailer (type 0) operated by Johan "Julf" Helsingius of Finland from 1993 to 1996. Its initial creation stemmed from an argument in a Finnish newsgroup over whether people should be required to tie their real name to their online communications

(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penet_remailer, Wikipedia)

And it was also true that anon.penet.fi did handle a lot of early postings of porn files, primarily on the USENET network. However, that wasn't the server's only use -- being anonymous was often desired at the time. It was a different time than today...

 

[bill schwab]

The book 'What Remains' is a very hard book to peruse...

Fot those interested, there is a very well done documentary of Mann and some of the things she went though in working on this project from beginning through the open of the exhibition. I seem to remember she got the idea from a body found on her property. If I am not mistaken, that body was the first she photographed.

 

[copake_ham]

While a tad OT, there is a continuing exhibition here in NYC of human bodies in various stages of "undress":

Dead Link Removed

I really find it interesting that there is all this consternation going on in Finland. Usually on this site the it's the European folk who are always telling us how "prudish" and "conservative" we Americans are.

EDIT: Oh, BTW, I forgot to mention there are full frontal pics (to the waistline) of the fellow posted as advertisements for the exhibit on bus shelters all over NYC.

 

[Videbaek]

No, there isn't a lot of consternation in Finland over the show -- just a couple people bothering the police with it. A little media play. I guess I wasn't clear in what I initially wrote, that the take-out of the show for me is three very fine and memorable pictures (the "corpse" pictures I dismiss, photography isn't up to that job), which is by far the best take-out of any photographic exhibition I've seen in years.

 

[matti]

When I studied to become a journalist we were told to not blow up stuff that is simply reported to the police or some other civil service, since it really doesn't mean anything until, at least, there is some rule that makes it probable that there will be some sort of investigation or trial. As you say, just some people bothering the police.
But did you really think the print making was dull? If it was the same images that I saw in Stockholm earlier this year, I must say that I would love to get a pointer on were to find something even better? I found especially the earlier, immediate family-work, that wasn't enlarged up to a square meter, very powerful.
/matti

 

[Iwagoshi]

Just two words: Joel-Peter Witkin.
Some think of him as a genius. Sally Mann's images are tame by comparison, but equally as thought provoking.
-Terry-

I'm new here, I'll introduce myself shortly in appropriate thread.

 

[Bill Mitchell]

Actually, I think the "body farm" is near Knoxville, Tennessee. Cadavers are allowed to decompose naturally, under varying conditions (in open fields, car trunks, etc), and evaluated so the forensic scientists can more accurately evaluate real-life (so called) situations, with insects, enzymes, etc.
Knowing how one little dead rat can make a whole house practically unlivable, I can't imagine the oders sticking perminently to her Deardorf!

 

[Videbaek]

<But did you really think the print making was dull? If it was the same images that I saw in Stockholm earlier this year, I must say that I would love to get a pointer on were to find something even better? I found especially the earlier, immediate family-work, that wasn't enlarged up to a square meter, very powerful.<

One must discuss specific pictures or it's beating-around-the-bush. Yes, I thought much of the print-making was ruinous. Example: the landscape picture of the girl, nude from the waist up (as I remember but she might have been clothed), a beautiful girl with long blonde hair, standing in the middle of a dirt track, centred in the frame. Behind, a child figure out of focus, and further behind a barely distinguishable child on home-made stilts making his or her way up the track. An extraordinary setting, a surreal touch in the form of the child on stilts. The print was made such that all light was focused on the girl -- the entire surroundings were burned down heavily and clumsily. The effect is that of a spotlighted figure on a stage. Well, sure, the point is made. We are not to miss the beautiful figure of the girl. This is like a Steven Spielberg movie: "I'm making a point now. There, I made it. Must make sure you got it. Bang! Did you get it now? Bang! Did you get it now? Bang! Did you get it now? Moron, hello, is there anybody in there?!" I'm not saying that it would be easy to make this picture with both subtlety and strength -- chiaroscuro is only fully realized in the hands of Rembrandt -- but made the way it is, the real interest of the picture is lost entirely. Quite a few of the "family pictures" were like this.

 

[SuzanneR]

I'm inclined to agree that her printing of the "Immediate Family" work is heavy handed. Subtle is not a trait of her work to be sure. It's too bad, too. That picture you describe with the stilts is one her her best, imho, but I've only seen it in her book.

 

[haris]

I thought Sally Mann as well as Jock Sturges and few others controversies are ended story. They and their work were so many time under investigations, criticized, in police, in court, and they allways get out as "winners" from all these situations. So, when people will get it: their work is controversial but it is legal, and that is that.

On the other side there will allways be people and groups of people who will try to impose their thinkings and moral or estetic values as values of society. Oh, well, price for demokracy I guess...

So, Sally Mann had controversial exhibition. What's new

 

[tim_walls]

Just two words: Joel-Peter Witkin.
Some think of him as a genius. Sally Mann's images are tame by comparison, but equally as thought provoking..

Absolutely - I'm in the JPW is a genius camp, I love his work. Never seen a Sally Mann that I like, but that's probably just because I haven't been exposed to enough - only the standard headline grabbers. If this exhibition were here in the UK, I'd be there...

 

[pentaxuser]

In reply to my question about how such bodies are found by photographers, I was sent an explanation about body farms which contained a reference to one such farm "believed" to be close to London.

Any U.K. APUGers stuck for a venue for the meeting after next, please contact me. Boy, have I got a weekend for you!

pentaxuser

 

[Lee Shively]

I find her printing to be work extremely well for the subject matter. The photo mentioned of the blonde child in the foreground with the background burned in is probably "Candy Cigarette". That photo was done in 1989. Printing down the secondary subjects to make the primary subject dominate the image was a technique used more often then than it is today. I continue to consider it a valid technique and use it myself when warranted. But then, I'm mentally and aesthetically stuck in the photography from the middle and late 20th Century. In the 21st Century we've become accustomed to images manipulated digitally to creamy perfection in technique and composition.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I saw a couple of Sally Mann prints including "Candy Cigarette" in an exhibition called "Girls on the Verge: Portraits of Adolescence" at the Art Institute of Chicago today, and controversy aside, she really is a great printer. In a show of many excellent prints, the Sally Manns just have a luminosity that the other B&W prints don't.

 

[jeffbuck]

Wet Plate?

Large format w/ wet plate to photograph a corpse? Whatever for?

A Sally Mann exhibition is running at Helsinki's "Tennis Palace" and attracting controversy. Heard on the radio that a "group of seven people" have asked the police to investigate whether certain of the pictures are "hurtful to humanity" (a rough translation of the Finnish). I've been to see the show, which comprises some of the older pictures of her children including all the most famous ones, a series of large wet-plate landscapes, a series of large close-up portraits of a daughter, and a series of wet-plate studies of murder victims.
What did I think... Well, the pictures of her children certainly do not constitute child pornography, not in this universe or any number of alternate ones. A couple of these pictures are exceptional, very beautiful. I was disappointed in the print-making, which was heavy-handed. Much isolating of the central figure and heavy, heavy, heavy burning down of all surroundings.
Of the landscapes, one was exceptional to my mind. Useless to try to describe it. The rest were not particularly interesting, southern gothic sounding a monotonous note.
The series of large, close-up pictures of her daughter -- perhaps 10 in all, wet-plate, rough application of emulsion, there was graphical interest yes, relying on the spontaneousness of the medium used rough. Not much progression from picture to picture. Maybe would repay longer contemplation.
Turning to the hurting of humanity, the picture of a dead obese woman, naked, lying face down, her corpse decaying, the flesh falling away, who has been brutally tortured as evidenced by wires around her wrists having visibly dug into the flesh splayed open and pulpy, her body dumped in a forest clearing, decaying leaves piled up against her rancid buttocks, the large format camera placed close, the angle of view slightly downwards, the wet plate emulsified on the spot presumably amidst the buzzing of flies and the stench of death.
I felt a pang of embarrassment for the photographer, who obviously does not understand. But I inspected the pictures, which are very well done technically, and strode out of the room washing myself mentally as I went. The pictures are not hurtful to humanity, they are merely beneath contempt. Just another iteration of the bile spewing across the nation's television screens, iPods and computer monitors. If the Helsinki police condemn these pictures, they must condemn much else as well.

 

[mikepry]

I remember the exact time I first saw the book "What Remains." It was about a week after we buried my mother and I got really uneasy and put it down. I felt dirty after seeing it. I personally think she crossed the line. I don't know if the death of my mother tainted my opinion or not, but I really feel there are some things that just don't translate to film and death is one of them. I don't want to judge this most excellent artist rather just choose not to view some of her work.