safelights- which colour to use?

nov · Jul 7, 2008

Im just building a darkroom and am a little confused at which safelight to get.

I understand red is common, but amber is better for RC paper?

I own some unused old old old paper- the bromide stuff from kodak which suggests a yellow/green safelight which i have recently purchased. Now my question is, what is the difference and can i use the greenish/yellow safelight for contemporary RC paper?

anyone got a good link for some reading?

thanks!

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2008

The best choice is the amber safe-light for Variable Contrast papers. You can use this with all papers.

The Ilford/Harman Technology website has plenty of information.

Ian

dancqu · Jul 7, 2008

nov said:
I own some unused old old old paper- the bromide stuff
from kodak which suggests a yellow/green safelight which
i have recently purchased. Now my question is, what is the
difference and can i use the greenish/yellow safelight for
contemporary RC paper? thanks!

Your yellow/green will work with Graded paper, RC or FB.
There is a fairly good selection of RC Graded and a big
selection of Graded FB. My Graded paper safelighting
is yellow/orange and level of darkroom lighting
quite high. You'll take a hit on lighting level
working with VC by the very nature of
eye sensitivity and the color of the
light. Dan

Marco B · Jul 7, 2008

Ian Grant said:
The best choice is the amber safe-light for Variable Contrast papers. You can use this with all papers.

Although this is a good general recommendation, you may wish to have both an amber or yellow / green safelight and a red safelight. I have both.

Red safelights are more difficult to work in, as it significantly changes contrast and can be tiresome to the eyes.

However, if you ever get into liquid photo emulsion for self-coating of paper, than for example Rollei Black Magic Variable Contrast liquid emulsion *requires* red safelight compulsary. It will fog with an Ilford standard 902 amber safelight or a yellow / green lamp.

edtbjon · Jul 7, 2008

As your instructions says so, the contemporary safelight should be fine. (y/g or g/y, what's the difference?)
But there are other brands of contemporary paper which doesn't like the yellow-green light. The Adox, Emacs range and probably also the papers from Foma are more happy with red light. (But hey, they should be OK in Calgoorlie. )

//Björn

Bob F. · Jul 7, 2008

Just to spell it out: you will not be able to use yellow/green light when using VC paper. VC paper is sensitive to green light. Whether it is RC or fibre makes no practical difference - the same emulsion on RC or fibre will have essentially the same sensitivity to different wavelengths of light.

You can use the amber suggested by Ian for both VC and graded. Not sure if yellow/orange as used by Dan is the same as amber (wavelength approx 595nm) but if so, that will work too. You will find you can use higher intensity amber light with graded paper than with VC paper because it is less sensitive at these wavelengths.

Orange is a good compromise as it allows relatively high light levels with both VC and graded paper. Your eyes are most sensitive to green light so the further away you get towards red, the less sensitive your eyes are and so the darker things seem. This is why amber is a good colour as 3W of amber LED light looks MUCH brighter than 3W of red light. Also, I find red too depressing a colour!

Whichever you use, I'll just repeat the oft quoted mantra: Test your safelights regularly - it's the only way to make sure they are safe.

Bob.

Pinholemaster · Jul 7, 2008

Amber – red is popularized by the movies. Red was used with ortho film and paper.

Akki14 · Jul 7, 2008

Hm now I'm very confused as I only have red safelights and have used it while handling and printing VC paper all along (along with ortho film).

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2008

One serious problem with orange/red filters is image bleach with Variable contrast papers. This doesn't show with normal safe-light tests but results in a reduction of the contrast range, this usually equates to a drop in the maximum contrast range achievable, you can't get much over about Grade 4.

Some orange/red filters are better than others and size of the darkroom, the distance of the paper from the safe-light makes a big difference.

Ian

Steve Smith · Jul 7, 2008

Akki14 said:
Hm now I'm very confused as I only have red safelights and have used it while handling and printing VC paper all along (along with ortho film).

Me too. I keep thinking about trying amber but then I forget to do anything about it!

Steve.

Akki14 · Jul 7, 2008

Hm interesting. I keep my light on the floor, a bit over a meter away from where i work with the paper and tend to work with my back to the light and shadow covering the paper for most of the time. Maybe I'll have to consider an amber safelight.

fschifano · Jul 8, 2008

It's really quite simple. Yellow/green, Kodak OA spec, is ok with almost all graded papers. Amber, Kodak OC spec, is good for most variable contrast papers, and is fine with graded papers. There are some variable contrast papers whose manufacturers require a red safelight. Fotokemika Varycon comes immediately to mind. Red safe lights, Kodak 1A spec, is meant for slow orthochromatic materials like ortho-litho film. But guess what kids, enlarging paper is a slow orthochromatic material. Yes, red is a little harder on the eyes. How much harder is an individual thing. Depends on how much time you're gonna spend in there. I use the safe light only when necessary, most of the time the white light is on while I'm selecting negatives, setting up the easel, calculating printing times, and doing all the other things you need to do that don't require safelights.

Kodak's document on safe lights is here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/ti0845/ti0845.pdf

Ilford's document on safe lights is here:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006130211253.pdf

dancqu · Jul 8, 2008

edtbjon said:
But there are other brands of contemporary paper which
doesn't like the yellow-green light. The Adox, Emacs range
and probably also the papers from Foma are more happy
with red light.

Slavich Graded says Red and IIRC Emaks Graded, ditto.
I've got both used both and found that a high level of
yellow-ish orange bothers neither.

My darkroom days started in the late 50s. I can not
recall having encountered even once the use of OA,
yellow/green, safelighting. Now I've five fine
condition circular OAs but no holders. Any
one with some spare Bullets?

Get into the habit of safe paper handling. Other
than at the easel or in THE processing tray keep
the emulsion down but the level of light up. Dan

richard ide · Jul 8, 2008

I used red safelights exclusively for many years with graded, VC and ortho materials. As I had large rooms, I made safelights out of 2' x 4' fluorescent fixtures. Filter material was red acrylic with ruby and amber sheeting. The light level was low enough to allow several minutes exposure, but bright enough to see comfortably.

nov · Jul 9, 2008

Thanks for all the info. i guess i should see how i go with the safelight ive purchased. For now im only using kodak papers and Ilford RC paper, so from what ive read this should be fine.

I didn't realise so many different papers are available. How exciting.
I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible because ive already realised ive kinda over stocked with a few things. oops.

Reinhold · Jul 9, 2008

"One serious problem with orange/red filters is image bleach with Variable contrast papers. This doesn't show with normal safe-light tests but results in a reduction of the contrast range, this usually equates to a drop in the maximum contrast range achievable, you can't get much over about Grade 4."

Ian:

Please elaborate on "image bleach" with red safelights... first I've ever heard of it.
What is/are the principle(s) behind it?
Is it common with all VC papers, or are some papers more prone than others?

Intriguing...

Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com

nworth · Jul 14, 2008

The yellow-green OA safelight is no longer recommended even for graded papers. While generally OK for graded papers, it still has a shorter safe working time than the amber OC filter. The advantage of the OA is that it is easier to judge prints under its color of light. The amber (OC) filter is required for variable contrast papers because they are sensitive to green light. Some of the eastern European papers now recommend against using amber safelights with their products and specify red safelights. I haven't done any real tests, but I know that Foma VC papers will withstand a short exposure to the OC safelight. Red safelights will allow a longer working time, I'm sure. The problem is that it becomes harder to judge the print values as you go from yellow-green to amber to red. This isn't much of a problem when using strict time rules for developing, but it could be troublesome with something like lith printing. Eventually your mind adapts, and you can at least pretty well see what you've got even under red light. Most people like to view a print under at least dim white light to do final tuning anyway.

dancqu · Jul 14, 2008

nworth said:
The yellow-green OA safelight is no longer recommended
even for graded papers. While generally OK for graded
papers, it still has a shorter safe working time than
the amber OC filter.

If ever there were a one-size-fits-all filter it would be
the OC. Kodak even specified the OC for AZO! Graded,
VC, Azo, use an OC.

European Graded papers and the Red light requirement?
Forget it. Work easily under very visible yellow to orange
safelight. That red light is Emaks and Slavich specified.
I work with both under Y/O safelights. Dan

Robert Budding · Jul 31, 2008

Has anyone here tried LED lights? They seem to have narrow spectrums.

Kirk Keyes · Jul 31, 2008

Yes, I bought a couple Westinghouse Nanolux red LED lights. See:
http://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-...ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1217519422&sr=1-7

I use them as spot lighting over my developer/fixer trays as they are in the corner of the darkroom and away from my main safelights. It's a big darkroom, 8x20 ft, and I've got two 4 ft fluorescents with red Delta One sleeve filters as the main lights and they are very bright - easy to read books or whatever. I get about 7 minutes before fog with Ilford MG IV with the fluorescents. I highly recommend them.

The LEDs are directly over the trays to give a little extra. I haven't tried fogging tests with them.

I got 2 one watt bulbs, but I think I'd get the 3 watt version next.

Kirk Keyes · Jul 31, 2008

Here's a better price:
http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-03451-1G19-LED-R-1W-RED-Globe-LED-Light-Bulb

Phillip P. Dimor · Jul 31, 2008

Kirk Keyes said:
Yes, I bought a couple Westinghouse Nanolux red LED lights. See:
http://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-...ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1217519422&sr=1-7

Kirk, thanks for that link. I've seen those in the past and had wondered if they would work. I'd also found quite a few 'red' led lights that would screw in a normal socket but had never pulled the trigger.

I use all red safelights. I scored a deal on Nuarc bubblites which have a red filter. These are sometimes cheap and plentiful, meant to be used with graphics arts film. I think I got 4 for $30 shipped. They are very bright.
Now I use a mix of the Nuarc bubblites and LEDtronics led safelights. The LEDtronics ones are unreasonably expensive new. There was a member here who bought a bulk purchase on ebay and sold them off individually (thanks!). They are very bright and not fatiguing in the least. I've seen similar ones on other sights for much less..

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=MR16
have a lot of 'red' ones that 'may' work.

I don't find the red tiring, i'm pretty used to it. Just as long as the lighting is even and bright. Also, I can use all sorts of ortho materials and not worry about it.

Phillip P. Dimor · Jul 31, 2008

That link also has UV blacklight led bundles.. for those who are into that sort of thing! E27-UV32

Kristian · Jul 31, 2008

I've recently got a Nova led orange safelight with another extension off Ebay.

http://www.novadarkroom.com/product/316/Nova_5_Star_Safelight.html

It does seem quite bright compared to my old Ilford SL1, or the photax dome, but I'm so used to red that the orange from the Nova is taking some getting used to. I wish they put a switch on the plug though, rather than just a dimmer!

safelights- which colour to use?

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