Safe Android timer for tray development ?

Laurent · Feb 2, 2013

I'd like to start tray development for my 4x5 negatives, but the question of the timer prevents me of doing so at the moment.

So, is there an Android timer that would be safe for this usage ?

I installed "Darkroom timer" http://www.android-software.fr/darkroom-timer, which seems nice, but am not sure about the effects on the negative.

Your experiences are welcome !

nicholai · Feb 2, 2013

When using these i put my smart phone in the pocket. Problem solved.

hgernhardt · Feb 2, 2013

Laurent said:
I'd like to start tray development for my 4x5 negatives, but the question of the timer prevents me of doing so at the moment.

So, is there an Android timer that would be safe for this usage ?

I'm afraid I'd have to give that a big, fat, ugly NO.

Reason being: Any smartphone will be using a backlight which has spectral emission in the range of sensitivity of modern films. Even orthochromatic film may be fogged. The backlight leaks badly, even with a black screen.

When it comes right down to it, what you will need is an audio cue. Since you're going to be working in total darkness, the only thing you'll be able to use is something which yells at you. There exist darkroom timers that can do this. It is also quite possible to build one yourself.

At a more primitive level, a wall clock with an audible tick will work. I use this for print processing.

Laurent said:
I installed "Darkroom timer" http://www.android-software.fr/darkroom-timer, which seems nice, but am not sure about the effects on the negative.

I use this on my Galaxy Tab when processing film in a daylight tank. Quite convenient, though it's missing features I would like. The timer I used as a kid was my father's Vivitar Process Commander, which allowed me to set drain time, agitation interval, agitation time, and all sorts of other stuff. It was also quite usable for print exposure management. Man, do I ever miss that thing. Maybe one of these days I'll build something similar.

Good luck in your endeavors!

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 2, 2013

What about a simple voice recording that paces your development session?

Make one up with the lights on until you have everything you need in the final recording. You can not only mark the agitation cycles and solution transfer times, but can also add any extra process reminders that might be handy. Then just turn out the lights, play it back, and follow your own instructions.

Ken

bobwysiwyg · Feb 2, 2013

Found this reference/solution on the LF forum.

http://www.amazon.com/Tel-Timer-Talking-Countdown/dp/B002VSZP18/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hpc_2

nicholai · Feb 2, 2013

Oh, yeah, it was pretty implicit in my message that the timers should give out sound.

Worker 11811 · Feb 2, 2013

Play a song on your iPod. Wear your headphones and be sure to put the iPod, itself in a pocket on the inside of your clothes.

Many iPods (and other players) have little remote controls right on the headphone cord that lets you select a song or playlist.

"Over the Hills and Far Away" by Led Zeppelin is 4:50 long.
"Misty Mountain Top" is 4:40.
Just string together a bunch of songs in a playlist, one for each step of your process.

If you want to develop for a shorter time, pick a shorter song like "Going to California" which is only 3:30 long. If you wanted to develop for a long time, maybe "Stairway to Heaven."

Pick your favorite songs and, not only will it help you pass the time in the darkroom, the rhythm will help you keep your agitation regimen consistent, too.

vpwphoto · Feb 2, 2013

Get a cheap stopwatch timer. The fear of having the display go bright, and even a "low glow" for 4 minutes is too many extra photons in the room... few darkrooms are as dark as Kodak meant them to be.

I tried two phone timers once and quickly dug out the Gra-Lab again.

You can enjoy your music on your own terms and not use it as a timing device.

tkamiya · Feb 2, 2013

One of the disastrous situation is.... right in the middle of the development phase, SOMEONE CALLS! Those LCDs are pretty darn bright. I make it a point to leave my mobile phone outside my darkroom.

Doremus Scudder · Feb 3, 2013

I've been tray developing for years. Here are my preferred methods:

In my U.S. darkroom I have a Zone VI Compensating Developing Timer. It has a very dim red LED readout. I place the timer on a shelf and baffle with some black board so the film processing trays cannot see the display. The timer counts up and has a footswitch. The advantage of the compensating timer is that it adjusts automatically for temperature variation (it has a temp probe). If you keep your temperature under good control (or use ambient temp and a compensation chart), any timer with this sort of display will work fine; the footswitch is handy though.

In my darkroom in Vienna (actually my interior bathroom converted for film processing when needed) I use a combination of cheap kitchen timer and a metronome. The metronome is set to 60 bps (one beep every second) and I could just use it alone if I wanted to keep track of counting the seconds during the entire processing time (I have done this and do for stop and the first part of the fix). However, setting the kitchen timer to the developing time (minus drain time) allows me to just use the metronome to time my agitation. I start the timer, immerse the sheets, agitate with the metronome and, when the timer sounds, get sheet one on the bottom of the stack, lift and drain the negs and transfer them to the stop.

In the stop I count 60 seconds on the metronome after shuffling through the stack once. I then transfer to the fix and count seconds till I'm halfway through the fixing time. I then switch on the white light so I can see the clock and continue fixing using that.

I kind of like the idea of using different pieces of music for timing the process. Heck if I could find a bunch of pieces that had 60 or 120 bps tempos and matched my N, N+ and N- times I might adopt that method; then I could use the tempo to guide my agitation much as I use the metronome now. And, anticipating the end of the piece would help with getting everything ready to get out of the tray on time.

I do need something that either shows or sounds seconds though, so I can keep track of my agitation.

I've had bad experiences with my cell phone in the darkroom, so I keep it in a dark pocket on my black leather darkroom apron now...

Best,

Doremus

www.DoremusScudder.com

gliderbee · Feb 3, 2013

The app of the massive development chart has a good and programmable timer.

Stefan

Verstuurd van mijn GT-I9300 met Tapatalk

fran · Feb 3, 2013

I use the darkroom timer app all the time and I put an old box lid over it. When I need to advance it on, I lift the box on the furthest away side so the light is minimal.

It has an audible warning at each agitation, and a double warning at the end of each stage. Put it into flight mode if you are concerned about getting a call in the middle of development.

Fran

fotch · Feb 3, 2013

I have used my Gra-Lab with a four sided black paper cone to shield any stray light and with a small opening, about 4 inches square, on a shelf, about 30 inches above the trays. I can then lean forward to check the time with no apparent fog problems. Since getting a Jobo, no longer do it that way.

Laurent · Feb 4, 2013

Thanks to all, many good ideas there !

My issue is not with the phone ringing, as no phone is allowed in my darkroom (the phone is a "business" one and I keep the damn thing shut of as much as is realistic), but the backlight.

My current timer is an LCD one, so it is unreadable in the dark.

I like the idea of using music, this looks an exciting idea, and would save me from a boring record of my own voice.

Chees !!!

Laurent · Feb 4, 2013

Thanks to all, many good ideas there !

My issue is not with the phone ringing, as no phone is allowed in my darkroom (the phone is a "business" one and I keep the damn thing shut of as much as is realistic), but the backlight.

My current timer is an LCD one, so it is unreadable in the dark.

I like the idea of using music, this looks an exciting idea, and would save me from a boring record of my own voice.

Chees !!!

TheMissingLink · Feb 5, 2013

If you need such a helper, try this one:
"Entwicklungszeitenrechner" by Darkroom Solutions Ag. You'll find it at google's playground...

you have the choise between format, agitation, dillution, ... also you are able to store corrected times afair.

hth

Ho.

Laurent · Feb 10, 2013

I tried the voice recorder yesterday, and it's fine enough, at least for a beginning.

I developed 7 sheets and made only one mistake : the 8th sheet stayed in the box (and I spent 5 minutes trying to separate sheets, thinking two were stuck ;-) Note to self : next time, count sheets BEFORE puting them in the pre-soak !!)

This is so easy that I'm wondering why I did not try it before (OK, maybe gas for 5x7 or bigger is a good reason ;-) )

I may have some "pin holes" in the negs (points were the emulsion seems to be missing), one shows some marks (very strange, don't think this is uneven development), but I'm currently happy with this process.

Watch the classifieds, there could be one Combiplan for sale in the short-term future ;-)

FingerLakesMark · Dec 15, 2016

I know this thread is over three years old, but I thought I would add to it as I have also been looking for a suitable timer that won't risk fogging film during tray processing.
The ideas above regarding music or voice recordings gave me an idea; using Dead Link Removed you can mix your own music and/or recordings. Additionally, the audacity interface has a timeline that can be used to customize and hone in your times. It's possible to add your own voice-overs for instructions and reminders. You can create a library of files for different films, developers and for printing as well. Then you can put the .wav or .mp3 file on any audio player. Some of the simpler players have no displays making it less likely something will turn on and fog your film.
I'm going to start mixing some audio files...

rpavich · Dec 17, 2016

Worker 11811 said:
Play a song on your iPod. Wear your headphones and be sure to put the iPod, itself in a pocket on the inside of your clothes.

Many iPods (and other players) have little remote controls right on the headphone cord that lets you select a song or playlist.

"Over the Hills and Far Away" by Led Zeppelin is 4:50 long.
"Misty Mountain Top" is 4:40.
Just string together a bunch of songs in a playlist, one for each step of your process.

If you want to develop for a shorter time, pick a shorter song like "Going to California" which is only 3:30 long. If you wanted to develop for a long time, maybe "Stairway to Heaven."

Pick your favorite songs and, not only will it help you pass the time in the darkroom, the rhythm will help you keep your agitation regimen consistent, too.

Led Zeppelin for a timer..blasphemy!!

Fraunhofer · Dec 17, 2016

I am a novice to tray developing film. Nonetheless, here is what I found:

There is a large number of countdown (or up) timer apps out there which have a voice announcing the time. I use one on the iphone. When in the darkroom I wrap it in some cloth and put it face down in a shelf about 2m away from the tray. No problems. Counting up is also better than a countdown since you can do variable time sequences w/o having to change any settings.

wiltw · Dec 17, 2016

With kitchen timers on amazon.com for $8-15, with pushbutton controls and automatically repeatable times for repetitive tasks, why bother with using a phone (and risk dropping it in a tray of chemicals, or spilling a container on it? Just don't buy a Starbucks coffee every day for a week.

Yeah, it's an old thread, but it is a 'timeless' topic (pun intended)

paul ron · Dec 17, 2016

those talking timers are great.

chrisaisenbrey · Dec 19, 2016

Finding a timer with some acoustic signal is not difficult. Any cheap labtimer will do it. However finding a timer which gives also a signal for agitation (eg every minute) is already more difficult.

Im using the android timer from darkroom solutions (https://darkroom-solutions.com/).

So switching the phone to airplane mode, choosing the right time and agitation interval, then switching off the screen. The rest goes by acoustic signals.

darkroommike · Dec 19, 2016

This topic goes al the way back to cassette recorders. Remember them? Kodak actually made pre-recorded tapes for popular processes and many darkroom types used to make their won "mix tapes" with commentary. Funniest I ever heard was a notation to press pause until you got the $%^&*! on the film tank, apparently he had issues with the way the lid fit on his tank! Audacity, etc. make the recording, and timing much easier, and multitrack permits commentary on another track, the problem is that deployment is much more expensive...e.g. smart phone or computer or iPad, etc. get that wet and you're having a bad day, a cassette recorder in the trash didn't hurt as much. Maybe a cheap MP3 player? I still use a Gralab 300. never fogged a film in 45 years.

DWThomas · Dec 19, 2016

I have used a deep "box" over a timer with a small light source inside and a small hole to peer through. That pretty well avoids stray light, although I won't claim it's convenient. Rev 1 was a cardboard tube about the diameter of a mechanical stopwatch that I installed a neon bulb inside with a fairly large resistor to keep the brightness minimal. That was in the 1960s before LEDs. Rev 2, much more recent, is a battery operated kitchen timer which can do count ups, count downs and Zeus knows what. I put a battery holder and some switches in a plastic "project box"and made a kludge out of scrap mat board to hold it all together. It has a red LED inside and there is a momentary switch for just pressing to read, plus an on-off switch that will turn it on continuously.
My main annoyance is there are too many buttons across the front edge. Having been using it to time X-ray film development under a Wratten #2 safelight, I have dabbed white acrylic paint on the two buttons needed for normal operation. If I get to using "real" film, I will add a strip with cutouts so the non-normal buttons cannot be pressed without special effort. It beeps at the end of a countdown, so for my limited use, it works.
Illumination ...

Exploded view ...

(Yes, I'm retired and a compulsive tinkerer! )

Safe Android timer for tray development ?

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