Sad news from Kodak - HIE, EPN, EPR

Stan160 · Nov 6, 2007

I'm going to miss HIE. Will have to carefully ration the 5 rolls left in the freezer. If my house didn't need two potentially expensive repairs then I would stock up with some more

Never used the slide films, but I have 5 rolls of recently expired EPN, bought as part of a job lot of expired slide film. Maybe I should hang on to them until they are rare and valuable

Ian

Harrigan · Nov 6, 2007

What I find truly amazing is that they have been producing e64 until this year. No surprise it's finally being cut, good riddance. I am glad to see the old films cut so they can concentrate on keeping the new emulsions alive.

EPN though is the industry standard for accurate color and a bit of a loss for many I am sure as is HIR. Anyway trimming off the excess retro films isn't really that bad is it? Let us concentrate on the awesome modern film emulsions and forget the past, it is past.

Stephen Frizza · Nov 6, 2007

Ah Stabbing pains to my heart HIE was my favorite black and white film.
Time to buy up big!!!!

Changeling1 · Nov 6, 2007

I wonder how many employees will lose their jobs as a result of this action. What line of work will they go into now and how much less will that line of work pay?

Tim Gray · Nov 6, 2007

I would imagine very few would lose any work. If Kodak discontinues a line of film because the need has basically disappeared, then these films probably only get a limited number of runs. From PE has said, Kodachrome for example only runs once a year for a couple hours. So cutting it would be just a blip on the radar of the coating machines...

Oh HIE. I miss you already. Does anyone want to loan me $500 to buy some? On a more serious note, how well does HIE keep frozen?

ben-s · Nov 6, 2007

Tim Gray said:
On a more serious note, how well does HIE keep frozen?

In my limited experience, excellently.
I recently shot some that had lain forgotten in the bottom of a freezer at work for about 20 years. It was foggy but usable. YMMV

Tim Gray · Nov 6, 2007

ben-s said:
In my limited experience, excellently.
I recently shot some that had lain forgotten in the bottom of a freezer at work for about 20 years. It was foggy but usable. YMMV

Cool. I doubt I will be able to afford a 20 year stock. I'm just trying to make up my mind as to whether I should go in for 40 or 80 rolls.

Tom A · Nov 6, 2007

D#¤%#&.... had just "discovered" HIE this year and thougth it "safe" after the noise about it and EIR this spring.

Well, think I just have to order a dozen or so rolls this november. Glad to see it keeps well in the freezer.

Tom

pentaxuser · Nov 6, 2007

One of the best books on IR that I have read is by Hugh Milsom and it centres around Kodak HIE. If it becomes defunct, it turns a lot of the book into a historical document rather than a working text.

Yes I know there are other IR films that offer different/better looks depending on your tastes but none have the speed or the halo effect of HIE. It's depressing that another product finally dies.

All the more poignant having just read part of Ctein's Post Exposure book, (first edition) on his website which another thread directed me tnly the late 1990s so not so old really. It covers the benefits of "Panalure" for B&W versions of colour negs as opposed to B&W paper such as Ilford Multigrade. Well it was RIP Panalure a couple of years ago and now it's HIE's turn.

Depressing. To repeat myself.

pentaxuser

Christiaan Phleger · Nov 6, 2007

I for one will stick up for the lowly and often maligned EPR. In 4x5 and 120 it gives a very good retro look, especially with older lenses in soft light. I was getting it from B+H and then they ran out about 3-4 months ago, but then about 4-5 weeks ago they restocked. I got some, and the packaging was way different, leading me to conclude on my own that it was probably the last cutting of this film. I ordered some more and will now stock up further.

htmlguru4242 · Nov 6, 2007

HIE was fantastic for that uinique grainy, glowing IR effect, and it'll be missed. But, in the current state of the film market, I guess that that's just how things roll.

Nokton48 · Nov 6, 2007

Well,
I still have an unopened, frozen, roll of 150' Kodak 70mm 2424, which is the exact same emulsion as 35mm HIE. So I will soon have to crack it open, and fire some through my 70mm Hasselblad backs

braxus · Nov 6, 2007

EPR to my eyes looked quite similar to E100G. I shot a roll of each and could not tell a difference visually. Contrast seemed about the same. I have a few rolls and some 4x5 of EPR, but I wouldn't hesitate to use E100G from there on. As for HEI- never used a roll. Be nice to try one though.

Jadedoto · Nov 6, 2007

Unfortunately I'm just getting into doing E6 at home.. Oh well. The only slide film really available around here that's NOT in the camera shop (the) is Ektachrome 200. As long as that stays for now...

Hm.

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 6, 2007

It is always sad to see old friends go, but it will probably help strengthen Kodak as a company.
I was under the impression that the last run Kodak made of HIE was a long time ago, and that they were just spooling up what they had left until it's gone. Interesting film, but hardly a mainstay with me. I did love the Konica infrared, though. I'll have to try the Efke film now, or Rollei, or continue shooting some of Ilford's excellent SFX film. None of them look the same, however. Oh well, life goes on...
- Thomas

lesd · Nov 7, 2007

I am a little surprised at the muted response to the demise of HIE. Perhaps as film users we have learnt to be stoical about the loss of 'old friends'.

Les

Ian Grant · Nov 7, 2007

lesd said:
I am a little surprised at the muted response to the demise of HIE. Perhaps as film users we have learnt to be stoical about the loss of 'old friends'.
Les

This is probably because this is old news with regards to this film and seems to have been tacked on to the Ektachrome news.

Ian

Tim Gray · Nov 7, 2007

I'm a bit surprised about the HIE response too. The response seemed larger this summer with the false report of its demise. It really was a unique film...

Terence · Nov 7, 2007

Perhaps because none of us believed their protestations that they weren't discontinuing it when the EIR was discontinued. They have lied like dogs before. The writing was on the wall. It seemed all but a certainty to me.

I am hardly Mr Doom & Gloom, but if Kodak wonders why many folks here are or are becoming anti-Kodak, they need look no further. "We're NOT discontinuing HIE." "No wait, we ARE cancelling HIE." They are destroying what little level of trust I still had in them. For once, they had seemed to be communicating with people to correct a rumor, only to say a few months later that the rumor was true.

I use very few of their products now. I will now throw my small amount of business to someone who at last makes the effort to even APPEAR to want my business and loyalty.

I haven't used HIE in a wile, but like others here, I have a few rolls in the freezer along with a 70mm roll of 2424. I'll use it sparingly, and figure out how to better make use of the Efke film. Ilford SFX in 120 has already been my favorite film for years, but not for the extreme IR look.

Renato Tonelli · Nov 7, 2007

lesd said:
I am a little surprised at the muted response to the demise of HIE. Perhaps as film users we have learnt to be stoical about the loss of 'old friends'.

Les

Speaking for myself, I am not stoical about the loss of HIE. I shoot a few rolls every month and the 100+ rolls in the freezer will not last very long.
It is a unique film. I have tested all of the other B&W Infrared films available and HIE remains my favorite. In my opinion, EFKE comes closest, Rollei demands an R72 filter to get an infrared effect and Ilford's offering is not a true infrared film.
The continual loss of film emulsions and papers annoys me to no end. It seems that if a product is not wildly profitable, it is dropped. $+#^&%#@, $$!*&%+@, &%$#@!

terri · Nov 7, 2007

I don't feel like being stoical about it in the least - but I must admit, I find that I somehow have braced myself for this moment, so I'm not shaking my fist at the sky. I definitely flipped out more when the "rumors" were going around earlier this year....I relaxed, but I was certain that "rumor" was little more than a warning shot. And I was right.

As much as I do love and use many Kodak products, I don't appreciate being told one thing in one business quarter, then quite another at year-end. Terence's comments above are spot-on. I'm just exasperated, these days, with any "news" coming from Kodak. THEY have made themselves untrustworthy, and this action underscores that.

I will miss the hell out of HIE. A unique and wonderful film.

Martin Reed · Nov 7, 2007

Tim Gray said:
I'm a bit surprised about the HIE response too. The response seemed larger this summer with the false report of its demise. It really was a unique film...

Well, obviously it wasn't a false report was it? As stated before the source was close enough to the centre of distribution to be taken on trust - presumably at some level within the Kodak chain a decision was made to defuse potentially dodgy PR;

[/QUOTE] I work with Ketchum, which is Kodak's public relations firm and in particular, I work on the film business.

Over the past week, various postings have discussed the future of KODAK High-Speed Infrared Film/HIE and KODAK EKTACHROME Professional Infrared EIR Film/ ESTAR Base and. Because the reports contain some inaccurate statements, we wanted to address them directly with you.

Kodak will continue to sell the KODAK High Speed Infrared Film/HIE and you can continue to order this from your dealers.

Best, Colleen Krenzer [/b] [/QUOTE]

And it had the intended effect, the volume of discussion here is a fraction of that in the summer, it's all been said before. The last HIE stock must have been coated long before that statement went out.

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 7, 2007

Kodak will continue to sell the KODAK High Speed Infrared Film/HIE and you can continue to order this from your dealers.

Best, Colleen Krenzer

Sell? Order? Guess it doesn't explicity say anything about manufacture, does it?

Geez, guess I'll need to start having my lawyer read Kodak's announcements...

Ken

Photoe · Nov 7, 2007

With regards to Big Yellow's duplicity:

Fooled me once -- shame on you
Fooled me twice -- shame on me

aldevo · Nov 9, 2007

Thomas Bertilsson said:
It is always sad to see old friends go, but it will probably help strengthen Kodak as a company.
I was under the impression that the last run Kodak made of HIE was a long time ago, and that they were just spooling up what they had left until it's gone. Interesting film, but hardly a mainstay with me. I did love the Konica infrared, though. I'll have to try the Efke film now, or Rollei, or continue shooting some of Ilford's excellent SFX film. None of them look the same, however. Oh well, life goes on...
- Thomas

Well, yes, that's the thing. From Kodak's perspective a film may be discontinued when their distributors may no longer be filling retail orders for it and that may be some time after production ceases.

Sad news from Kodak - HIE, EPN, EPR

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